pitbulls

Hillbilly420 said:

WTF? who are you to tell me what i am doing is wrong...

The breeding was an accident... But, I am taking the responsibility for finding the puppies GOOD homes. I'm not dropping them off at the shelter.

Click to expand...

Because she's an idiot who can't even establish dominance over a 10lb dog.

Accidental breeding? Ever hear of spaying or neutering your pets? I have 2 dogs and 3 cats and there is no accidental breeding, they've all been to the vet and been altered.

If you think every home that a puppy is going to is going to keep that dog until it dies of old age, you must be some kind of fool who has never been to an animal shelter before.

Oh and Biggravy, just because my ShihTzu is pretective of the people who saved him from starving on the street, does not make me an idiot. It is an example of dog behavior. We saved his life, he is well aware of it and his little 11 pound ass would at least try to fight to protect his family.

Do any of you really think the person that bred the ShihTzu we found or the Golden Retreiver we got from the pound thought either of these dogs would ever end up homeless?

People get pets all the time, then they don't train them and let them become unruly. Both my dogs were fully grown and at least 2 years old when I adopted them. They've both come a long way with love and patience.

Should I have left both dogs homeless and went and got an "accidental" puppy instead?

Hillbilly420 said:

WTF? who are you to tell me what i am doing is wrong...

The breeding was an accident... But, I am taking the responsibility for finding the puppies GOOD homes. I'm not dropping them off at the shelter.

Click to expand...

Biggravy22 said:

Because she's an idiot who can't even establish dominance over a 10lb dog.

Click to expand...

So because I compared one breed of terrier to another breed of terrier and made a sensible point you call me an idiot, that just goes to show how uninformed about dog behavior you really are. Name calling is written proof that you have no intelligent point to make and must resort to the behavior frequently displayed by 5 year olds.

misshestermoffitt said:

Accidental breeding? Ever hear of spaying or neutering your pets? I have 2 dogs and 3 cats and there is no accidental breeding, they've all been to the vet and been altered.

If you think every home that a puppy is going to is going to keep that dog until it dies of old age, you must be some kind of fool who has never been to an animal shelter before.

Oh and Biggravy, just because my ShihTzu is pretective of the people who saved him from starving on the street, does not make me an idiot. It is an example of dog behavior. We saved his life, he is well aware of it and his little 11 pound ass would at least try to fight to protect his family.

Do any of you really think the person that bred the ShihTzu we found or the Golden Retreiver we got from the pound thought either of these dogs would ever end up homeless?

People get pets all the time, then they don't train them and let them become unruly. Both my dogs were fully grown and at least 2 years old when I adopted them. They've both come a long way with love and patience.

Should I have left both dogs homeless and went and got an "accidental" puppy instead?












So because I compared one breed of terrier to another breed of terrier and made a sensible point you call me an idiot, that just goes to show how uninformed about dog behavior you really are. Name calling is written proof that you have no intelligent point to make and must resort to the behavior frequently displayed by 5 year olds.

Click to expand...

You made no point whatsoever. You used your dogs piss-poor behavior as an example as to why every dog will be disorderly or become as you put it "Miserable" as they get older. That's not a point. That's an opinion. Not based on fact. But on a closed issue based on the fact that you cannot establish dominance over your dogs. They aren't properly socialized and they act out with aggression because they haven't been taught any different. How is it that my "Vicious" 45 lb pitbull isn't dog aggressive, but your 10lb dog is? How is it that I can walk my dog down the street and he doesn't growl at any dogs, but yours does? Simply put. Your dogs are poorly trained.

My dogs were adults when I got them, can you not read and comprehend. They were dogs that people got and then didn't want to take care of any longer. How would your dog act if you got it at age 2 and it had quite obviously been abused at it's former home?

The sad thing is, in my area the animal shelters will not accept any more animals, they are that full. If you do find a stray you either have to keep it and find it a home, or leave it running loose. Get too many of those and pretty soon it won't be safe to go outside with wild dog packs running loose.

I'm sure no pittbull has ever ended up in a shelter (cough cough, 75% of the dogs in shelters where I live are pitts) . The pitts can't be adopted out because people don't want to adopt a fully grown agressive breed dog. So every other breed of dog it on its own because the fucking pitts are taking up all the space in shelters. Like it or not it's the way it is.

How about you go adopt a fully grown, at least 2 year old pitt that has been smacked around by it's owners so much it crawls along the floor expecting to be beat. That's the reality of my retriever. If she'd have been a pitt with that behavior she'd have been euthanized. It's been 3 years that we've had her and she rarely acts like that anymore, but once in a while she must gets some weird flashback and does it again.

You also realize that in breeding pitts have been bred to retain their fierceness and fighting skills. Evolution doesn't just go away, I'm glad you think it does, good luck.

I show and breed Boxers. I have some of the nicest AKC registered Boxers in the country from some of the best lines. They are health checked and this doesn't mean I take them to a vet and he says your dog is healthy. This means they have cardiac testing via EKG which is a 24 hour Holter monitoring/recording of the heart rhythm, an Echocardiogram, special auscultation for heart murmurs, Thyroid testing, via blood draws/lab testing, x-ray and certification of their hips, and eye testing.
I have very few breedings...when I do, many of my dogs go to show homes if good enough...a few are placed into wonderful family homes across the country of people who want a Boxer dog in particular.These people want a Boxer, usually a puppy and want specific breed characteristics that can only be obtained by owning a Boxer ( I think they are one of the greatest family dogs in the world, with very stable personalities, safe and loving with kids, fun, easy to groom and a laugh and a half, with just enough guard dog to know they will protect you if the need arises).
I support my national and local ASPCA's and Human Society's. I think all dogs deserve wonderful homes, but all dogs are not suited for wonderful homes and some must be put down.
Responsible breeders such as myself are not responsible for the shameful amount of animals that end up in shelters. Shameful people who want to own a dog and do not want to take on all the responsibilities of dog or cat ownership are. They are responsible for the mess in our shelters!
I will not stop breeding and showing my dogs because their are people in our society that are irresponsible and cruel to animals in general and I will not feel any guilt because their is a dog sitting in a shelter that needs a home and one of my puppies is taking it's place. The people who are lucky enough to get one of my puppies want a Boxer and want a dog with good breeding, and health testing, and personality testing that I perform when they are 8 weeks old to ensure they are getting the best fit for their family.
I am responsible and those of you that think my right to breed and show a specific breed of dog should be taken away because of all the other idiot's who are irresponsible human beings should get your priority's straight and get the correct message out to those irresponsible people and the general public. Also remember...not all dogs are able to be rehabilitated...There are only so many Ceasar Milano's with the time to fix a screwed up dog, if they can be fixed. Not everyone wants a shelter dog with an unknown past and issue's. I helped my neighbor pick out a nice shelter dog, a mostly pitbull mix. He( the dog) ended up being a terror and trashing her house and then out of nowhere taking a hunk out of her daughters arm!!!! She ended up getting a Boxer puppy from me, free of charge, one that I could have charged several thousand's for. He is now 8 and she is happy and he is happy.
The message being, If you own a dog, love it and care for it forever!!!,if it is a pet or a mix don't breed it. If it is registered, and if you think you are even considering breeding ask yourself these questions. Can I afford the testing to ensure my dogs the healthiest genetically best specimen possible to breed??? Have I shown it and proven it is a great specimen. Will my dog genetics and offspring improve the breed quality.Will this breeding produce great family pets...personality and demeanor is everything, if the parents do not have great and stable personalities, most likely the puppies won't either. Most important will I always be willing and able to provide a home for any dog I breed and take back any puppy or older dog if the need arises. If so then you might think about breeding, then again maybe not...

As far a pitbulls there are some great pitbulls out there, lots of great gentle dogs, but there are quite a few bad eggs as well and when a pitbull does damage to a human being the damage is very severe.. They are a dog aggressive breed not a human aggressive breed, very big difference!!, but when they are a dog and with bad upbringing, bad genetics and poor training, their strength and their size can make them a lethal weapon. Since they became the rage and every street corner thug and their mother decided they had to own one this breed has encountered a lot of problems and bad press some rightfully so as many of them are trained to be aggressive and then thrown in a yard or closed room and given little if any socialization. Biggest problem has been the lack of good ownership and awful breeding practices. I do not know if this breed will ever fully recover. Poor training, irresponsible breeding, and unscrupulous uses of this dog has forced the public to want the breed to be annihilated of the face of the planet... Frankly, I don't blame them.
It is true that a Dachsund, Chichuhua, Cocker Spaniel for that matter are more human aggressive breeds. However, you don't usually find them running around loose and devouring people, they remain in peoples home as coddled little pets, behind closed doors, and there bites can cause little of the harm that a big, strong dog that has been breed for generations to kill another dog can.
I hope all the wonderful loving pitbulls out there can find great homes!!! Would I ever own one??? No, because unfortunately by doing so I am taking on a liability in the publics eye, and in a court of law how do you defend yourself knowing the reputation that they have. I want to keep my home and possesions and the risk isn't worth it to me...
Good luck to the breed and all the wonderful owners who do allow them in their homes and give them the love that they deserve!!!

misshestermoffitt said:

I don't let my shihtzu act like an ass because he's cute. When he is trying to be fierce and attack I pick him up. For some reason holding him is like an off button, he just shuts down and becomes limp like a rag dog. He also can't really hurt anyone or other animal since he is too small to actually bite anyone. His mouth just isn't big enough to get a bite grip.

He's not allowed to sit outside and yap either. I think it's rude for dogs to be outside barking. If ours bark we make them come in right away. They end up learning that if they bark once at the back door they get let in.

Click to expand...

You've just touched a sore spot for me, because we've got neighbors who truly don't give a shit how much their dogs bark. We had to do a little retraining of our own, since, even after being approached on four different occasions (by me) they refused to even acknowledge it was a problem.

My dogs have a job, and that (main) job is to alert me to strangers on the property. I know my individual dog's barks, and what they mean, the way I know their hair and their shits (yes, I know which dog shat where). The way I know who smoked that cigarette and how they stub them out, etcetera. Anyway, my girls know what's expected and act accordingly. They may not sit and bark relentlessly, and once I am outside and have acknowledged the stranger they're to stop. I've been working on teaching that last bit to Old Missy Dawg for ten years now and she still hasn't got it. Hazel does, though.
(WHOA! There's a frog in a PVC pipe outside the window croaking, and it sounds really funny croaking from inside that pipe. )

Hillbilly420 said:

First of all, I didnt intend on breeding any animals... It was an accident. Secondly, These dogs are top notch show dogs so it wasnt really a bad thing. They'll will be sent all around to world to breeders. Santiago, Chile is where one is going, and it will enter a breeding program there... (Most will stay in the US) Both are decorated with ADBA conformation points. None will end up in a shelter. Because in order to get one of these dogs, you have to agree to let me buy back the dog if you decide you dont want it anymore. Thats how it is with these bloodlines... Not everyone can have one. Only serious breeders. There not just pit bulls, they have been selectively bred to preserve certain traits within the breed.

Click to expand...

Damn, I knew those were nice-looking dogs. I put up, many pages previous to this, the RRCUS Code of Ethics (Rhodesian Ridgeback Club of the United States), which includes language that makes breeders ultimately responsible for the pups they breed for the life of that dog. I think it's highly ethical and has become necessary in the world of pit and bull breeds (all large breeds, in my opinion, should use this same code). Kudos to you for operating on that level.

I cannot and will not crack on people who are breeding purposefully, or even those who aren't but are being responsible for the ensuing litters because of the situation of the "grade" animals (mutts and those of uncertain breeding). Just as I won't crack on people who breed horses when there are horse rescues operating. I do crack on those who breed mentally unstable animals, or don't take care in their placement, etcetera. For me common sense prevails.

1st of all buddy your not john gurden.
Say anything you want. What you say will have no effect on what i think.And do.
I breed them cause they are show dogs. There is a demand for this.
This is a long term investment. These dogs go from 1200$ to 10k. A piece!!
So knowing that, would you say even take 800$'s to a pound? Or neglect it? No. And if there is that chance that it ends up there. One out of how many? Tell me am i flooding the world?
They don't get sold to just anyone. We do NOT sell to any one we are not 100% comfortable with.
My two just also happen to be my household pets.

misshestermoffitt said:

another person that thinks there aren't enough unwanted dogs in the world

Click to expand...

Thank you Big G. Just for you, and the non critics.

Brought him home this evening.

Biggravy22 said:

Gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous.

Click to expand...

nice looking pup!

i have a very healthy boxer, but no matter what people say pits are a very great dog and friend. shit i have a pit tattooed on my chest

Biggravy22 said:

To be honest...You sound like you just have unruly pets. For you to assume that every dog will be as miserable as yours is moronic to say the least.
I take my dog off the leash and he wont leave my side. You just have piss poor control over your animals, and believe that everyone else is in the same sinking ship as you.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm not argueing on this, but it could be not ALL his fault. Even though your dog doesn't leave your side a LOT of dogs are different. I see some dogs that will just be real mellow, and I see some dogs that are just wild. It all depends on age, and how you train them, but you can only train them to a certain extent while having a dog that doesn't hate life. Haha. Some of the factors could just be the dog itself. Just the genetics i guess. That's just my opinion on it.

spida said:

Well, I'm not argueing on this, but it could be not ALL his fault. Even though your dog doesn't leave your side a LOT of dogs are different. I see some dogs that will just be real mellow, and I see some dogs that are just wild. It all depends on age, and how you train them, but you can only train them to a certain extent while having a dog that doesn't hate life. Haha. Some of the factors could just be the dog itself. Just the genetics i guess. That's just my opinion on it.

Click to expand...

thats very true, ive had very mellow boxers, and now i have a spaz ass for a pet lol. i train all my dogs the same. ill post pics up later

Well, just for the record... Both the dogs were meant for breeding. I was just not in stage of my life that i wanted to breed dogs. But I show both dogs, and they have been tighly bred, have no health problems. They are remarkable animals and it wasnt a bad thing to even though it was an accident...

I agree that is sucks that there are millions of pitbulls out there needing adopted. But that is the result in irresponsible owners. There aren't many people who have the assertiveness to handle an adult pitbull that has been mistreated... But it can be done and I would do it if I had a 1000 Acre farm and could afford it. I have a passion for the animals because of there strength, Agility, High energy, and Loyalty. They are aggressive but so are people. You must respect a pit bull as if it were a person, and they will do anything for you.


These dogs were not bred for looks they were bred for temperment, the wbility to work, and the qualities i have described above... When a dog bites someone it does not get bred. When a dog is a retard, it does not get bred. When a dog shows no ability it doesn't get bred. It is not bred for looks... It its bred to be a companion in a rough environment. They are brave dogs...

When you get a chawawa, a lap dog or whatever... They are bred for size and apperance...

Hahaha cool man. It's just my opinion on that matter, because I mean some humans are "trained" good, and end up bad, some are raised (I guess is a better word) good and end up good. Some are raised bad, and end up good, etc etc. Same way with every mammal. No two will ever be the same. Unless your siamese twins in that case, I'm sorry for you. Haha.

mr.x007 said:

Thank you Big G. Just for you, and the non critics.

Brought him home this evening.

Click to expand...

All I can say is toooooooooooo cuteeeeeeeeeeeeeee

mr.x007 said:

Thank you Big G. Just for you, and the non critics.

Brought him home this evening.

Click to expand...

Aww.. I can practically smell the puppy shit right now.

Hillbilly420 said:

Well, just for the record... Both the dogs were meant for breeding. I was just not in stage of my life that i wanted to breed dogs. But I show both dogs, and they have been tighly bred, have no health problems. They are remarkable animals and it wasnt a bad thing to even though it was an accident...

I agree that is sucks that there are millions of pitbulls out there needing adopted. But that is the result in irresponsible owners. There aren't many people who have the assertiveness to handle an adult pitbull that has been mistreated... But it can be done and I would do it if I had a 1000 Acre farm and could afford it. I have a passion for the animals because of there strength, Agility, High energy, and Loyalty. They are aggressive but so are people. You must respect a pit bull as if it were a person, and they will do anything for you.

These dogs were not bred for looks they were bred for temperment, the wbility to work, and the qualities i have described above... When a dog bites someone it does not get bred. When a dog is a retard, it does not get bred. When a dog shows no ability it doesn't get bred. It is not bred for looks... It its bred to be a companion in a rough environment. They are brave dogs...

When you get a chawawa, a lap dog or whatever... They are bred for size and apperance...

Click to expand...

Too many dog breeders don't pay attention to the poor dog's brain. The same thing happens with horses, and I can tell you what a nightmare THAT is.

The bit I bolded, I'm not so sure I totally agree with that. What are typically a more difficult problem, in my own experience (this is to all dogs, not just pits) is the fearful dog who then shows a fear-based aggression, or is SO fearful that they just flop over and wet. Those have been the most difficult dogs to work with for me, and that's just me.

I handle small dogs the way I handle any other sized dog, and that totally depends on the dog. In other words, I try to let them tell me what kind of treatment they need, but ALL always know I am Alpha, I lead the group and I am the one who makes the decisions. I am still trying to convince that God damned old dog, ten years now!

The dog I want more of (if I had the room)? Rhodesian Ridgebacks, the European-bred dogs. The American-bred dogs are too thin and lanky, they don't have the solidity of body that the Euro dogs do, they look more like greyhounds than a lion-hunting dog. But, I just haven't got the space and Hazel's taught me what a demanding animal this breed is to work with.

spida said:

Well, I'm not argueing on this, but it could be not ALL his fault. Even though your dog doesn't leave your side a LOT of dogs are different. I see some dogs that will just be real mellow, and I see some dogs that are just wild. It all depends on age, and how you train them, but you can only train them to a certain extent while having a dog that doesn't hate life. Haha. Some of the factors could just be the dog itself. Just the genetics i guess. That's just my opinion on it.

Click to expand...

I Know, but she's like "If mine does it...so will yours" and that mentality just doesn't fly with me. Dogs much like people are different, but im a firm believer that the attitude of the dog is a firm reflection of the type of person the owner is. If you think your dog is going to be unruly and miserable with age, and you reflect the disposition on the dog...it's probably going to come to fruition. "Mommy doesn't care what I do, so I'll just do and act however I please".

I had and experience with an 11 year old German Shepard at the dog park.
Moose tried to grab his ball cause he couldn't find his, and the dog snapped, and moose snapped back. His owner looked at me like it was all moose's fault. He was so nonchalant about the whole situation. It scares me shitless because moose will always get the short end of the stick. Long story short, about 5 minutes later another dog got close to the Shepards ball, and he reacted the same way. They guy packed up his shit so quickly and left. It was like nothing to him. "my dog is aggressive when someone tries to take his toys...but it's ok, because it's him". Which is Bs. People need to take responsibility for their dogs actions, and not just chalk it up to
"That's just how he is."

I cannot agree with this MORE. It happens to Hazel with small dogs all the time. And their owners expect me to carry the burden of controlling both dogs, or... what? They expect Hazel to understand that it's a small dog so.. what? Of course she doesn't understand that. Fortunately, neither does she understand that the little dog is actually REALLY SUPERPISSED at her and thinks it wants to play so she goes into full-on play mode. Last one took her by the FACE, and she just kinda shook him off and came back for more fun and games.

I'm not sure how one would assess my personality based on my dogs' behavior. We've got the lump and we've got Hazel, and I picked 'em both.

Seamaiden said:

I cannot agree with this MORE. It happens to Hazel with small dogs all the time. And their owners expect me to carry the burden of controlling both dogs, or... what? They expect Hazel to understand that it's a small dog so.. what? Of course she doesn't understand that. Fortunately, neither does she understand that the little dog is actually REALLY SUPERPISSED at her and thinks it wants to play so she goes into full-on play mode. Last one took her by the FACE, and she just kinda shook him off and came back for more fun and games.

I'm not sure how one would assess my personality based on my dogs' behavior. We've got the lump and we've got Hazel, and I picked 'em both.

Click to expand...

Gotta odd question for you? When I look at moose I don't necessarily see him as a dog. He's just like a child with fur. lol. It's just like we connect on more than an owner/pet level. Is that weird?

My last post was meant for my thread about my litter of pups... haha i was fucked up last night! haha