Advanced Nutients

[skunkushybrid01]

That may be why AN users aren't seeing salt build-ups. Because we all know when a plant uses a nutrient from a chemical "salt" molecule supplied in a nutrient solution, it is actually using only one part of that molecule. The remaining part of that molecule generally stays in the hydroponic system and eventually can reach damaging levels of concentrations when not flushed or changed out. This process, which often happens in traditional agriculture where heavy fertilizer concentrations are applied to soil crops, is referred to as salt-build up.

nice cut n paste

When a plant uses a nutrient from a chemical "salt" molecule supplied in a nutrient solution, it is actually using only one part of that molecule. The remaining part of that molecule generally stays in the hydroponic system and eventually can reach damaging levels of concentration.
This process, which often happens in traditional agriculture where heavy fertilizer concentrations are applied to soil crops, is referred to as salt-build up. By testing our nutrient solution daily. we can monitor the salt levels. If the salt levels are rising. the concentration will be higher and therefore our EC reading will be higher. In our hydroponic system, it is quite easy to resolve the problems associated with salt build-up by flushing the growing medium or replacing our nutrient solution with a fresh mix.
In the soil, once salt concentrations reach toxic levels, it is difficult to correct and often makes what was once excellent farm soil unusable. The problem is exacerbated by the salts being washed and flushed into our waterways, rivers and streams where they are also toxic to fish, birds and other wildlife.

http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/lessons/Nutrient-Requirements/lesson5-3nutrient-requirements.htm

I never understood it to work like that. I understand that that's how the bonding takes place, where only one part of the structure can bond... but as far as the actual ion is concerned the way i understand it is the whole ion is used.

 

[homebrewer]

Actually, my cut and past came from here - http://hydroponics-fine.blogspot.com/2007/02/salt-build-ups.html

But now we have two sources saying the same thing, which is always good to see.

 

[skunkushybrid01]

Actually, my cut and past came from here - http://hydroponics-fine.blogspot.com/2007/02/salt-build-ups.html

But now we have two sources saying the same thing, which is always good to see.

Not exactly.. a lot ofwebsites simply cut n paste, steal, other articles. That's how bad info gets spread.

Not saying it's wrong, i just had it figured out differently.

Like the nutrients will bond to each other and cancel each other out by attaching to specific parts of the molecule. the chelating agents prevent this from happening. I've never heard before that only a part of the molecule is absorbed by the plant.

 

[medicalmary]

As soon as UB gets back to me i'll post report of unselected batch tested. Until then, who wants to know every AN "secret" recipe? I do, I do...
Should of put all the ingredients on the label, right?

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/hitlist.lasso

they need to list them in oregon, wa and cali to name a few. My favorite is that their organic line is not certified with any of the testing agencies. Having first hand experience with oregon TILTH tells me why they didn't go through the process. For one, it is timely 2) expensive 3) they make you jump through hoops. I'm only reporting what the gov has registered.

mm

here is "organics" in actual name link

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=6633

 

[medicalmary]

Here are the california registered contents. Guess what? OR has better heavy metal standards than your states, but if you are not reusing soil substrate over and over again the ppm will never accumulate to toxic amounts.

http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/showFirmOptions.asp

mm

 

[skunkushybrid01]

As soon as UB gets back to me i'll post report of unselected batch tested. Until then, who wants to know every AN "secret" recipe? I do, I do...
Should of put all the ingredients on the label, right?

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/hitlist.lasso

they need to list them in oregon, wa and cali to name a few. My favorite is that their organic line is not certified with any of the testing agencies. Having first hand experience with oregon TILTH tells me why they didn't go through the process. For one, it is timely 2) expensive 3) they make you jump through hoops. I'm only reporting what the gov has registered.

mm

here is "organics" in actual name link

http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=6633

that's very interesting and an education in of itself. Much thanks for sharing that.

 

[homebrewer]

I just called GH and asked them a few questions about salt build-ups and nute lockout. A lot of 3 part systems require you to mix in a certain order, otherwise you see bonds form and minerals will accumulate on the bottom of a res or a premixed jar. The guy I spoke with on the phone said that bonds form only in super concentrated mixtures, not necessarily in your res. So mixing them in your res in a particular order isn't entirely necessary since you're diluting with res water. But if you're premixing your nutes without dilution, you'll see some bonding going on such as sulpher with calcium. This is the reason why some companies even offer a 2 part grow or a 2 part bloom system. You just can't put all those minerals in the same bottle at those concentrations and not get bonding.

I then asked about salt build-ups in the res and on pumps. He explained the salt build up in the same way you see salt build up on rocks at any ocean coast line. A concentrated salt/mineral solution like the ocean, or your res, or tap water, will leave a residue on the surfaces that it comes in contact with. He explained that this will happen over time and it's just the nature of the beast. I specifically asked if chelates had anything to do with what I was asking about and he said no.

So the salt-build up you see around the lids of your nutes ( I see it around some of my Botanicare bottles and my GH gro and Bloom bottles) or in your reservoirs over time isn't indicative of nutrient quality, nor does it mean there are bonds forming and the plant isn't getting what it needs. This is just what happens when you're dealing with solutions with a high concentration of salts and minerals. If anything, you should be happy to see the build up as that is proof there is actually something in those colorful liquids that we feed out plants.

 

[skunkushybrid01]

I just called GH and asked them a few questions about salt build-ups and nute lockout. A lot of 3 part systems require you to mix in a certain order, otherwise you see bonds form and minerals will accumulate on the bottom of a res or a premixed jar. The guy I spoke with on the phone said that bonds form only in super concentrated mixtures, not necessarily in your res. So mixing them in your res in a particular order isn't entirely necessary since you're diluting with res water. But if you're premixing your nutes without dilution, you'll see some bonding going on such as sulpher with calcium. This is the reason why some companies even offer a 2 part grow or a 2 part bloom system. You just can't put all those minerals in the same bottle at those concentrations and not get bonding.

I then asked about salt build-ups in the res and on pumps. He explained the salt build up in the same way you see salt build up on rocks at any ocean coast line. A concentrated salt/mineral solution like the ocean, or your res, or tap water, will leave a residue on the surfaces that it comes in contact with. He explained that this will happen over time and it's just the nature of the beast. I specifically asked if chelates had anything to do with what I was asking about and he said no.

So the salt-build up you see around the lids of your nutes ( I see it around some of my Botanicare bottles and my GH gro and Bloom bottles) or in your reservoirs over time isn't indicative of nutrient quality, nor does it mean there are bonds forming and the plant isn't getting what it needs. This is just what happens when you're dealing with solutions with a high concentration of salts and minerals. If anything, you should be happy to see the build up as that is proof there is actually something in those colorful liquids that we feed out plants.

I owe you some rep for that (got to spread it around)... thanks for taking the time to share.

 

[medicalmary]

Just found the federal listing of all state fertilizer registrations. Find your state, but don't stray too far in the agricultural departed or you'll find the maximum fecal content allowed in your tootsie rolls.

mm

http://saffii.com/databases.aspx

mm

 

[Rydub]

Gotta go with homebrew on this one. If AN is such the shiznit, then why can't they create a simply a & b formula with the little micro nutrients? Why do they need to sell you all the boosters and little supplements and not roll those into their basic line. It doesn't make any sense. Also, phosphorus boosters in container gardening, please.

mm

The AN connissour part a/b is the best 2 part on the market in my opinion. i use the bud ignitor for weeks 1 and 2, big bud for weeks 2 through 5, then go with overdrive for weeks 6 and 7. i use bud candy throughout the grow for carbos (great stuff). i flush for 1.5 weeks at the end with straight water only. I almost never see a leaf get deficant and yellow at the end of flower.

AN just makes good stable nutreints, im sure GN and other products do a great job as well. But i will stick with AN for sure.

And belive it or not AN is the underdog in the nutreint world. Maybe the big boys are scared that AN might be on the right track.

 

[medicalmary]

The AN connissour part a/b is the best 2 part on the market in my opinion. i use the bud ignitor for weeks 1 and 2, big bud for weeks 2 through 5, then go with overdrive for weeks 6 and 7. i use bud candy throughout the grow for carbos (great stuff). i flush for 1.5 weeks at the end with straight water only. I almost never see a leaf get deficant and yellow at the end of flower.

AN just makes good stable nutreints, im sure GN and other products do a great job as well. But i will stick with AN for sure.

And belive it or not AN is the underdog in the nutreint world. Maybe the big boys are scared that AN might be on the right track.

AN was like so last week. I like basically switch it up every watering. It keeps my plants guessing.

mm

 

[skunkushybrid01]

AN was like so last week. I like basically switch it up every watering. It keeps my plants guessing.

mm

LOL.

last week i actually used the A part of H&G Coco's A and B, alongside the Bloom from AN. I've also used GH Grow alongside AN Micro and Bloom. I've also used the cocos A and B nutes in DWC no problem at all.

Since reading this thread I actually went out and bought a bottle of GH Ripen, 0/6/5... their ordinary bloom is 0/5/4. I'm using the ripen instead of Bloom. apparently the Ripen is supposed to contain hormones too that boost flowering. So now i'm using Ripen on all my plants, flowering, veg'ing, the lot.

Something you said before though about not being able to over fertilise the medium to such an extent that it would cause problems with nutrient availability or worse still actually break the salinity tolerance of the plant in a single grow.

It can be done. I've been experimenting with over fertilization now for a few months... even started seedlings in a 3.2EC concentration to see what would happen. Seen some very interesting results. Plants will only take what they need, it's impossible to actually over fertilize the plant, unless it is with N3. If there is not enough N4, then plants will take the N3, they can grow with it but it eventually poisons them.


The GH Humic is also more expensive than AN Humic in my country, but the GH is supposed to be thicker. Anyone with any thoughts on that?

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

Would someone post some pics of some product grown with AN so it can shut guys like me up? For all the money, marketing and hype, you'd think there would be some extraordinary photos floating around here, lets see 'em.

Here you go bro, I grew these with Advanced nutes, I used the Sensi A&B, Big Bud and Liquid Carbo Load. My max ppm throughout the grow was 950, much of the time less. This bud weighed 9.25 ounces wet and it cured to 2.625 oz.

That's a two liter bottle on the chair next to the bud. I've got many more pics if you'd like to see them.

Sorry I'm so late with the post!

 

[OZUT]

Here you go bro, I grew these with Advanced nutes, I used the Sensi A&B, Big Bud and Liquid Carbo Load. My max ppm throughout the grow was 950, much of the time less. This bud weighed 9.25 ounces wet and it cured to 2.625 oz.

That's a two liter bottle on the chair next to the bud. I've got many more pics if you'd like to see them.

Sorry I'm so late with the post!

You sure you dried them all the way? Your dry weight is 28% of your wet weight which is pretty high....Still a good looking bud but I'm just saying. Only losing 72% water weight is not that much

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

You sure you dried them all the way? Your dry weight is 28% of your wet weight which is pretty high....Still a good looking bud but I'm just saying. Only losing 72% water weight is not that much

What is dried "all the way"? I had no problems with mold in the jars or anything like that. The bud smoked very nicely. No, the bud did not crumble in my hands when I touched it, but that would be too dry. I'd say the 72% reduction in water weight to be very nicely dry.

 

[dbkick]

AN all the way! I got a big bud plant somewhere behind my white widow plant with a cola on it 5 inches round and 18 inches long(can't really get to it to snap a picture, maybe when I chop the runt euphoria which has a 3 inch round cola!)
Vegged for 30 days in an aerospring unit with nothing but sensi grow, switched to flower and used nothing but sensi bloom , big bud and b52. Near the end of the grow now and needed a little bit more bloom and have been wanting to go to the connisseur bloom line so I grabbed a gallon of A/B and this is what I'll use on my next grow which I can't wait to start(even though the first one isn't finished).

 

[skunkushybrid01]

I think the point is being missed here.

What's being said s that you can achieve those same results using less of a different line of nutes. aside from Big Bud, that is the best bloom booster on the market, as far as i'm aware it is the only booster that actually contains amino acids. Might as well forget about the p/k value and just add more bloom from the 3 part... but those amino's are what really do the boosting.

Maybe there are new products out now that contain those amino's... it's only certain ones, i think 2 that actually help with boosting yield, the rest are to do with flavour and aroma.

 

[homebrewer]

Here you go bro, I grew these with Advanced nutes, I used the Sensi A&B, Big Bud and Liquid Carbo Load. My max ppm throughout the grow was 950, much of the time less. This bud weighed 9.25 ounces wet and it cured to 2.625 oz.

That's a two liter bottle on the chair next to the bud. I've got many more pics if you'd like to see them.

Sorry I'm so late with the post!

Thanks for the pics, but I think skunk touched on my point; that you could do that spending less on nutes. I was also hoping for some incredible results and while your plants look fine, they fall short of 'above average'.

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

Thanks for the pics, but I think skunk touched on my point; that you could do that spending less on nutes. I was also hoping for some incredible results and while your plants look fine, they fall short of 'above average'.

Fall short of above average! I would like to see some pics of the "above average" buds you would like to see. Do you have any pics or are you just blowing smoke. You ask for proof and you blow it off when you see it. This is why I rarely waste my time with people like you.

Your arrogance is not offensive.

 

[homebrewer]

Fall short of above average! I would like to see some pics of the "above average" buds you would like to see. Do you have any pics or are you just blowing smoke. You ask for proof and you blow it off when you see it. This is why I rarely waste my time with people like you.

Your arrogance is not offensive.

Below is one of the strains I work with. I'm also currently doing a grow journal of the other strain I'm working with, feel free to follow along for more 'above average' product shots .