Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

[medicineman]

Ok. Let's give everyone $2000. Free money and benefits for the non-productive. Goddamn billionares....all 400 of them and the focal point of your ideology.

Really? I mean really? You can't understand that every entitlement program is completely upside down. We just doubled down again with this mess they call healthcare. You can't understand that all this buerecratic tape waste money? You think tax revenue is dollar for dollar and allocated for expenses....if it was we wouldn't be so far in the hole on debt. Countless levels of agencies, redundancies, pork barrel projects and lack of fiscal discipline or ability to budget is not something a 3% tax increase is going to have an effect on....especially if it stalls the economy futher. Your argument is moral and based in emotion...not pragmatic

I may be able to understand that if you can understand that Millionaires and billionaires really do not need a tax break. BTW, the tax cuts for the rich add 72 billion a year to the national debt, where is that conservative concern now?? Also, I never said the government was perdect, Even I could make a myriad of changes given the chance, How about stopping the senseless wars and cutting the military budget in half to start. How about starting a works project like the WPA to get people off welfare and unemployment, start fixing the infrastructure before it disintegrates. There are way more productive ways to spend that 72 Billion per year than giving it to the rich.

 

[NLXSK1]

I may be able to understand that if you can understand that Millionaires and billionaires really do not need a tax break. BTW, the tax cuts for the rich add 72 billion a year to the national debt, where is that conservative concern now?? Also, I never said the government was perdect, Even I could make a myriad of changes given the chance, How about stopping the senseless wars and cutting the military budget in half to start. How about starting a works project like the WPA to get people off welfare and unemployment, start fixing the infrastructure before it disintegrates. There are way more productive ways to spend that 72 Billion per year than giving it to the rich.

If we cut the military in half we wouldnt need to soak the rich eh?

 

[Serapis]

I may be able to understand that if you can understand that Millionaires and billionaires really do not need a tax break. BTW, the tax cuts for the rich add 72 billion a year to the national debt, where is that conservative concern now?? Also, I never said the government was perdect, Even I could make a myriad of changes given the chance, How about stopping the senseless wars and cutting the military budget in half to start. How about starting a works project like the WPA to get people off welfare and unemployment, start fixing the infrastructure before it disintegrates. There are way more productive ways to spend that 72 Billion per year than giving it to the rich.

I agree 100%.... The defense budget is more than any other country in the world. In fact, it is larger than all other countries combined.... wtf?

 

[medicineman]

If we cut the military in half we wouldnt need to soak the rich eh?

Are you rich?? If you are then I can understand the concern. If you are not, then maybe you have a common sense problem. Are you a conservative?? If you are, then what about the 72 billion added to the deficit?? Help me understand the insanity of giving the rich money we have to borrow from China, please.

 

[NLXSK1]

Are you rich?? If you are then I can understand the concern. If you are not, then maybe you have a common sense problem. Are you a conservative?? If you are, then what about the 72 billion added to the deficit?? Help me understand the insanity of giving the rich money we have to borrow from China, please.

If we cut the military and social security and medicare and some other programs we wouldnt have to keep borrowing from china. But keep attacking the rich, you know, the people who create the jobs... Real productive. I am not rich but I want the opportunity to become rich if I want to work that hard and I dont need to be hated for it...

F'in hater.

 

[Serapis]

Are you rich?? If you are then I can understand the concern. If you are not, then maybe you have a common sense problem. Are you a conservative?? If you are, then what about the 72 billion added to the deficit?? Help me understand the insanity of giving the rich money we have to borrow from China, please.

He is going to tell you that the rich create jobs.... You are gonna then ask, "where are all the new jobs in the last ten years then?" He is gonna then ignore your question and go off and on about Democrats being in control , yada yada.....

 

[Serapis]

If we cut the military and social security and medicare and some other programs we wouldnt have to keep borrowing from china. But keep attacking the rich, you know, the people who create the jobs... Real productive. I am not rich but I want the opportunity to become rich if I want to work that hard and I dont need to be hated for it...

F'in hater.

Bernie Maddof created a lot of jobs alright.....

Rich people are concerned with one thing.... THIER bottom line..... That is it...

 

[NLXSK1]

He is going to tell you that the rich create jobs.... You are gonna then ask, "where are all the new jobs in the last ten years then?" He is gonna then ignore your question and go off and on about Democrats being in control , yada yada.....

Who creates the jobs Serapis?


If it is not the rich then who creates the jobs?

 

[NLXSK1]

Bernie Maddof created a lot of jobs alright.....

Rich people are concerned with one thing.... THIER bottom line..... That is it...

Bernie Maddoff was a criminal. Are you saying that all rich people are criminals?

Lets try to keep the conversation on track ok?

And by the way... The Federal governments bait and switch makes Social Security the biggest ponzi scheme on the planet... So, really it is a horrible example to bring up.

 

[doc111]

Bernie Maddof created a lot of jobs alright.....

Rich people are concerned with one thing.... THIER bottom line..... That is it...

Bernie Madoff is but ONE individual! A crook is a crook regardless of social status or wealth. Way to stereotype!

 

[medicineman]

If we cut the military and social security and medicare and some other programs we wouldnt have to keep borrowing from china. But keep attacking the rich, you know, the people who create the jobs... Real productive. I am not rich but I want the opportunity to become rich if I want to work that hard and I dont need to be hated for it...

F'in hater.

That is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the insanity, wannabees. I want to be rich, so just in case I ever get there, I want all the tax cuts I can get. As for SS, remove the cap on deductions, SS will be funded well past my greatgrandaughters time. So just so I can understand your position, You want to be rich someday, so you want to give the already rich a 72 billion dollar tax cut that we have to borrow from China, Did I get it??

 

[NLXSK1]

That is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the insanity, wannabees. I want to be rich, so just in case I ever get there, I want all the tax cuts I can get. As for SS, remove the cap on deductions, SS will be funded well past my greatgrandaughters time. So just so I can understand your position, You want to be rich someday, so you want to give the already rich a 72 billion dollar tax cut that we have to borrow from China, Did I get it??

No, I have made my position quite clear a number of times in this thread but you dont seem to be comprehending it.

I will type it slowly.

WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM..... NOT A REVENUE PROBLEM....

The 72 billion per year is not money owed the government. It is not your money to spend, it is not the federal governments money to spend. The rich will invest it far more wisely than the government and whatever they do with it will be better than what the government will do.

 

[Luger187]

No, I have made my position quite clear a number of times in this thread but you dont seem to be comprehending it.

I will type it slowly.

WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM..... NOT A REVENUE PROBLEM....

The 72 billion per year is not money owed the government. It is not your money to spend, it is not the federal governments money to spend. The rich will invest it far more wisely than the government and whatever they do with it will be better than what the government will do.

let me get this straight....
after Bush came in, he pushed that bill through, and then there was tax cuts for everyone. taxes r really low. now, some people want to raise those rates back up to what they were just a few years ago. was the entire country in chaos then? where were all the thousands of people in the street claiming that their taxes were massively high?

the rich have gotten used to these tax cuts, and obviously want to keep them. who wouldnt! so, they tell people that the government wants to raise taxes, because that sounds bad. they make u believe that those companies will die off if the tax cuts are not extended. they make u believe THEY are the ones that create all the jobs. and they tell u that that is all that matters in the economy.

wouldnt YOU want a tax break? wont YOU spend all of that money from that tax break? i can guarantee the poor will spend the vast majority of that money. the rich will not. they will keep it in their pockets, and maybe invest a little, so that THEY can make MORE MONEY. they are after more money, and ONLY more money.

the average citizen however, has bills to pay. hes got kids to feed. hes got stuff to buy. with that tax money, he will buy that stuff. now, those companies that make those products make more revenue. with that revenue, they can hire more people. they hire more people because they see an increase in REVENUE.

if that company were to be handed a tax cut for this year, do u think they would go straight out and hire more people with ALL of that money? no they wont, because theyre isnt more demand there to justify the new hirings. if the economy is shit, and nobody is buying anything, why hire more people? wouldnt that be a waste of money since u will just have to fire them soon after?(no increased income+more workers=tighter budget+fired workers)

giving the tax breaks to the "middle/poor" class will help BOTH the citizens AND those companies which support those citizens with goods for sale. Freddie Mac doesnt give a shit about our economy. they care about profit and THAT IS IT. nothing more!

 

[MrDank007]

I may be able to understand that if you can understand that Millionaires and billionaires really do not need a tax break. BTW, the tax cuts for the rich add 72 billion a year to the national debt, where is that conservative concern now?? Also, I never said the government was perdect, Even I could make a myriad of changes given the chance, How about stopping the senseless wars and cutting the military budget in half to start. How about starting a works project like the WPA to get people off welfare and unemployment, start fixing the infrastructure before it disintegrates. There are way more productive ways to spend that 72 Billion per year than giving it to the rich.

I think I was posing this towards someone else and if you read far enough back I said I was even fine with killing those billionares...they are not what this is really about and just the oppositions extreme example and distraction. I also said further back that the Gates, Oprahs and Soros (billionares) of the world all support Obama...why cause they aren't affected...who is...we are. And again...good luck with those infastructure projects...let me know how that productive gov use turns out. THe stimulus didn't do a damn thing.

Futhermore, as I said $70Billion or whatever the number is is a flea fart in a hurricane. The annual interest on our national debt is half a trillion dollars. Paying that down alone does nothing, but keep our credit rating up. I'd rather the money be in the system and give positive signals to the market to get the economy on track. Our debt is a monster of its own at this point...Keep an eye out on Tbill auctions

 

[NLXSK1]

I think I was posing this towards someone else and if you read far enough back I said I was even fine with killing those billionares...they are not what this is really about and just the oppositions extreme example and distraction. I also said further back that the Gates, Oprahs and Soros of the world all support Obama...why cause they aren't affected...who is...we are. And again...good luck with those infastructure projects...

Barak Obama talked about shovel ready jobs for 2 years before he admitted that there were no shovel ready jobs. Ooops...

 

[Luger187]

Barak Obama talked about shovel ready jobs for 2 years before he admitted that there were no shovel ready jobs. Ooops...

when was this?

 

[MrDank007]

The problem is really about ROI. I see a lot vernacular about "giving". We are giving the rich money...we are giving the poor money. Noone is being given anything. The ideological divide is that one group still believes they get an ROI by "giving" the gov other people's money even though they are not making that investment...the other group believes they get a greater ROI from the economy benefiting from that money in the system.

 

[NLXSK1]

when was this?

Which part? He was talking about shovel ready jobs for 2 years, I am not going to link to all the speeches where he talked about it.

On October 13, 2010 he admitted it...

Here is a link http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/14/gibbs-addresses-presidents-comment-on-shovel-ready-jobs/

You might not like the source but there are dozens of links to it.

Who knew eh?

 

[Dan Kone]

Ok. Let's give everyone $2000. Free money and benefits for the non-productive.

Why is it "giving them free money" when talking about the working class, but when talking about the rich it's stealing if we don't give it to them?

We just doubled down again with this mess they call healthcare. You can't understand that all this buerecratic tape waste money?

It's only a mess because Obama conceded the public option to conservative demands. If the public option was there that same health care plan would have lowered costs across the board. Conservatives are directly responsible for this not lowering costs.

You think tax revenue is dollar for dollar and allocated for expenses....if it was we wouldn't be so far in the hole on debt.

Says the guy advocating the creation of 700 billion worth of new debt.

Countless levels of agencies, redundancies, pork barrel projects and lak of fiscal discipline or ability to budget is not something a 3% tax increase is going to have an effect on....

Actually it has a direct measurable effect of $700billion dollars in debt per decade.

Your argument is moral and based in emotion...not pragmatic

Quite the opposite. The middle class spend more money in the economy. Giving money to the rich "because they work hard and deserve it!" is a moral argument based on emotion. My argument is based on how to stimulate the economy in the most effective way per $.

 

[MrDank007]

The tax cuts are for 2 years and now is not the time to let them expire for reasons I already outlined. It would have cause a mass sell off and more stagnation in a recession. Your leaders spend $700B in a quarter. I'm all about debt management, but lets face it...the "revenue loss" from the tax cuts still isn't going to put a dent in anything until we quit spending and get a budget that works. I'd rather gamble the gov picking those taxes back up through a more prosperous economy