DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Doer

Well-Known Member
Hi Mr Heisenberg,

After brewing the tea for 24 hrs, the lava rocks have a coating of slime on it. Is this normal? I used your exact formula (aquashield, zho, ancient forest, ewc, coco coir). I drizzled the molasses over the rocks and put them into the bubbling water mixture. The water doesn't smell mossy yet -- it still smells like molasses. Here's what the rock looks like after 24 hours: http://i.imgur.com/i8XJkcz.jp

Is this normal, or did my brew become contaminated?
Nice picture. Good lighting, did not make the gray look as scummy as in real life. :) I've had that. It was housing in the rock house screen wire. A little is OK, I think. Seems to be some fungi or other. If it takes over it will smell very bad.

So I have come a conclusion. Less is more. Less molasses, less ZHO. It is possibly the fastest bloomer of the consortium of Bens we are blooming.

My drizzle was probably too thick.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hi Mr Heisenberg,

After brewing the tea for 24 hrs, the lava rocks have a coating of slime on it. Is this normal? I used your exact formula (aquashield, zho, ancient forest, ewc, coco coir). I drizzled the molasses over the rocks and put them into the bubbling water mixture. The water doesn't smell mossy yet -- it still smells like molasses. Here's what the rock looks like after 24 hours: http://i.imgur.com/i8XJkcz.jpg

Is this normal, or did my brew become contaminated?
This would not concern me at all. I would gladly transfer that rock to my res knowing that it came from an aerated tea brew.(although I would wait another 24hrs) If it bothers you, just rinse it off with some tea and a turkey baster.

To be honest, I do not know why a tea brew will sometimes produce slimy air stones and sometimes perfectly clean ones, or in your case lava rocks. I assume that on a microscopic level there are differences in the conditions from brew to brew that I can not notice as a human without proper instruments. What I do know is that, if your tea does not smell offensive, it will only help you. No bad smell, no problem.
 

PIP313

Member
Not true this shite gave me slime on roots with new (expired) aquashield with NO bad smell. It smelt like fresh clean water just with foam on top.

Please read my post on the last page, your opinion would help me out alot.
 

tastygrow

New Member
This would not concern me at all. I would gladly transfer that rock to my res knowing that it came from an aerated tea brew.(although I would wait another 24hrs) If it bothers you, just rinse it off with some tea and a turkey baster.

To be honest, I do not know why a tea brew will sometimes produce slimy air stones and sometimes perfectly clean ones, or in your case lava rocks. I assume that on a microscopic level there are differences in the conditions from brew to brew that I can not notice as a human without proper instruments. What I do know is that, if your tea does not smell offensive, it will only help you. No bad smell, no problem.
So after 48 hours, the lava rocks no longer have the biofilm, or at least the biofilm comes off easily when I shake the rock underwater in the tea. The biofilm appears to have a mixture of ancient forest soil & coco coir and gets filtered out when I dump the tea into a storage container for the fridge. The tea still doesn't smell like anything... maybe a slightly mossy undertone with a hint of sweetness. But I feel like there's basically no scent at all, it's like smelling tap water.

I did put one lava rock with biofilm on it in my rez, and currently it still has a thin biofilm on it. I transferred a little bit of the tea into my rez 10 hours ago and it totally changed the smell of the water. It now smells like nothing... like smelling tap water. Previously it smelled like something funky, but whatever was in the rez water previously, it must've gotten neutralized by the tea. After 10 hours, my pH did increase slightly, from 5.6 to 5.8, but that increase may have nothing to do with the tea.
 

tastygrow

New Member
Please help me this stuff took a healthy dead rez and gave it slime in 2 days, that was weeks ago. (Rdwc)

My aquashield was new and expired. Physan 20 system cleaning, dm zone, h2o2. Still unhealthy roots.

Can I brew the ancient forest and myco without aquashield? Im scared to try again my first went to hell very fast.
Maybe you still had sugar in the brew when you added to your rez. If your rez already contains an infestation of cyanobacteria, the sugar water will just make it worse. If the pH suddenly explodes from 5 to 7 in 24 hours, that might be the cause. However, you can't use dm zone or h2o2 with the brew -- that stuff will just kill all the bennies you just manufactured. You should probably flush your system a few times before adding bennies to make sure none of that stuff made it over.

The healthy dead rez probably still contained cyanobacteria. I've been there before -- my plastic tubes that touch water had a slightly slimy coating on it when I was using dm zone, and this just got worse and worse to the point where the slimy stuff was floating in water. I've given up on using dutch master gold zone -- it just makes it easy for slime to grab a foothold. I was using everything a sterilized rez should have -- zone, uv sterilizer, chiller, etc. The cyanobacteria had no problems thriving in zone water at 68F. One day I forgot to plug in my chiller, and temperatures went to 80F. During this time, the cyanobacteria exploded and basically demolished everything in my system.
 

PIP313

Member
Ok, yea I did add some before the 48 hours. (24 hours)

physan, zone, and h2o2 were only bought and used after slime appeared. Gotta kill it somehow but if my issue was the tea not being finnished then at least I know now how to fix it.

As far as cleaning the system again, ive done it at least 4 times and i'll do it again but I know its a waste of time, the plastic buckets come clean easy, just a brillo pad needed and sterilizers. Its the plants that hold the infection not the containers.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Ok, yea I did add some before the 48 hours. (24 hours)

physan, zone, and h2o2 were only bought and used after slime appeared. Gotta kill it somehow but if my issue was the tea not being finnished then at least I know now how to fix it.

As far as cleaning the system again, ive done it at least 4 times and i'll do it again but I know its a waste of time, the plastic buckets come clean easy, just a brillo pad needed and sterilizers. Its the plants that hold the infection not the containers.
Yes, infection, not contamiation. We can scrub to our limit of our anal retention, but slime is just waiting in the environment, it seems. And given a chance it takes over. For me cleaning is filling up with water and 5% of that vol is H2O2. That gets the cross pipes. The stuff needs to be alive to cling.

Also remember all those root particles floating around are infected. Even a full drain will leave root peices in the new water. So I include filtering the water thru a pump bag, each week to get the root bits out.
 

RedzoneFL

Active Member
Can I use this with Ebb and flow? I have a 20 gal res, how much should I add to my res?

How many days should I use this for?

Also my hydro shop doesn't carry ZHO Powder what else can you suggest I use?
 

RedzoneFL

Active Member
My plants were in a DWC, I ended up with stem rot from top drip constantly dripping on top of rock cubes, then with 78 degree temp water it didn't help, long story short I had gotten stem rot that killed one plant, and root rot that is trying to kill my other two plants. So I changed from DWC to ebb and flow since 73-76 degree temps in ebb an flow are a little more forgiven then DWC

In case anyone was wondering why I'm trying to do ebb and flow
 

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Sounds like your watering tooclose to the base. Get halos. And really? You think ebb is a forgiver? If youd have done a Correct dwc youd have been fine. Am i the only one who sees top drip as not even close to dwc?
 

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
My plants were in a DWC, I ended up with stem rot from top drip constantly dripping on top of rock cubes, then with 78 degree temp water it didn't help, long story short I had gotten stem rot that killed one plant, and root rot that is trying to kill my other two plants. So I changed from DWC to ebb and flow since 73-76 degree temps in ebb an flow are a little more forgiven then DWC

In case anyone was wondering why I'm trying to do ebb and flow
Use the tea, it will correct itself. ;)
 

RedzoneFL

Active Member
I stopped the top drip after I noticed insane amount of stem rot on one plant.

Everyone told me to get rid of the plant so the infection didn't spread and I didn't listen.

I can't do DWC because I can't keep my temps low enough
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Top drip is OK, but I don't drip from the very top. I put drip line down on the bottom, pushed into side. You might want to put the drip line on a timer at first.

The idea with a dripper is do not water the stem. I've never done Ebb/Flow, but think it takes longer.
 

RedzoneFL

Active Member
Top drip is OK, but I don't drip from the very top. I put drip line down on the bottom, pushed into side. You might want to put the drip line on a timer at first.

The idea with a dripper is do not water the stem. I've never done Ebb/Flow, but think it takes longer.
I'm going to brew it up tonight, I gotta call my hydro store first to see what they even have. I just added a top drip line on my ebb and flows until the root base is established.
 

RedzoneFL

Active Member
Hey guys, the local shop was out of Zho Powder but had something similar and it was called Great White or something--- How many scoops do I add, and what size scoop am I using? It says 1/4 - 1/2 scoop of Zho powder but I dont get the mix for that? What size does the scoop have to be and most importantly do I need to use Zho Powder could I get away with using Aquashield and Ancient Forest?
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
I'm going to brew it up tonight, I gotta call my hydro store first to see what they even have. I just added a top drip line on my ebb and flows until the root base is established.
I like that...just try it...the products expensive, we try to bloom them, multiplying Bens. It is the best cure and get on top of root rot, I have seen. Blows the doors off commercial preps, etc.

But, we experiment. I am thinking the flowing water in rdwc and drain to waste is conducive to clinging colonies..especially the gray biomass...good if not too much.

I do get some get some brown stuff clogging the air stones. I have tried every week use, but, I'm ready to harvest now. I think next time,

I will stick to pouring Tea over the root crown and don't add too much.
 

Malevolence

New Member
Heisenberg,

Over the past one or two months I have skimmed the entire thread and read almost all of your posts ("only" 67 pages with my settings). I am still left with questions, mainly because the thread is geared more towards the slime fighting attributes, and not other possible beneficial properties.

My understanding is throughout the thread you say bennies do not thrive in dwc and die off because they are not suited for life in water and do not multiply. The slime fighting process works because we deprive all life in the buckets of food by using synthetic nutes, and because of the thousands of different species of life, no one is able to dominate. Anerobic pathogens are unable to find food so they die off, and our bennies die off also and are replaced.

And yet, you also talk about providing housing and how colonies can establish in mature root systems in DWC over the course of 6 weeks or so. I am particularly interested in this, but it seems to be in contradiction with our bennies dying off and replacing them. I like your technique of putting an infected clone in a res with a healthy mother. The same thing is done in marine fish tanks with live rock; there are a lot of similarities between aquariums and dwc. I am fortunate that simply adding 10ml of Aquashield to my res every few days keeps things crystal clear, so I am interested in how bennies can colonize and help my roots.

You have said they thrive in soil, and really aren't of much use in hydro (summarizing more or less). Is it truly possible to have a colony of bennies living in the root zone, and what benefits would this provide beyond simply fighting root rot? I am hoping/assuming more resilient and faster growing roots, but maybe this is not the case or there is a point of diminishing returns... in other words DWC is already so oxygenated and the roots can explore where they please, there is no further exploration or benefits for the bennies to provide.

Another thing I have wondered about is the size of net pots. The past grows I have used 3.5" net pots (about the size of a red solo cup) and had OK roots. This grow I have switched to 8" net baskets that hold 1gallon of hydroton. With the bigger net basket, there is less water and more hydroton/air. I have been top feeding with aquashield in hopes that it might colonize the hydroton, and since it is not submersed in water, maybe the bennies will respond in a more soil-like fashion if that makes sense or is possible. The outcome I hope for is that the roots will explode in the net basket as far as fishboning and hairs, with massive tap roots in the bucket acting like a nute solution super charger injection... I am also going to add some lava rock to the buckets next payday; I just started some seedlings and no substantial roots yet.

An unrelated question if you have time... have you ever thought if bubbles or water current strengthen roots the same way wind strengthens stems? I guess it would depend if roots are repaired like stems are, or just ignored and left to damp off.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
University of Aberdeen proved plants communicate with each other. Signaling in case of approaching danger, so the others have more chance to survive. They communicate through funghi on their connected roots. Another reason to 'not' kill everything aka running sterile? :eyesmoke:
 
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