1%

dukeanthony

New Member
Duke,
I saw you voted against the occupy. The poll used to be public, now it seems to be private. You know why I am. You don't seem to be the type.
I voted against Occupy becuase they have too many messages
too many opportunitys for The Fringe to get involved
And No viable solutions

Yes the 1% is raping us
Yes the Wealth disparity is Insane

But what are the solutions?
Form a drum circle
Advocate for Communism?
No central leadership, no solutions a bunch of people getting together with no reason other than they are unhappy You know what you get?

The Tea Party<--------And those people suck
 

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
Why can't I spend ten years being a doctor, working for 20 years and invest it. If I'm lucky and work hard I can have a bank account with $6,000,000 and have spent $1,000,000 living. I would then be a 1%er. When I become 48 I could buy myself some beach front property and sit on my ass for the rest of my life.

Instead I should pay all that money I earned doctoring and investing to redistribute to you by paying more taxes? Again, as I said in my thread, fuck you occupy shit heads!
Are you a doctor? Have you worked for twenty years and are now sitting on six million bucks?

If not once again I ask, why are you siding with the one percent? Do you still believe anyone can become a millionaire by working hard?

Your ending statement sir really is the whole point of all the tax talk. People like you think only of themselves. That's the point, it isn't taxes, you don't want to share the wealth. A rising tide should lift all boats, not just the yachts.
 

dukeanthony

New Member
Im working right now making double time wages. I aint ever going to be a millionaire. Not even working 7 days a week
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Voting against ones best interests in my opinion is voting republican unless you are a part of the one percent of the wealthiest americans. I will however make a concession, if you are in the top ten percent I can see why you would vote republican.

To be clear, I do agree most everyone from both parties is controlled to some extent by corporate america and their multi-national conglomerate empires. I also disagree that voting for anyone who is not a third party member is a wasted vote. I would rather vote for Obama than cast my vote for a third party member and with that allow another republican into the white house. Congressman Paul has zero chance of ever getting the nod from the GOP. He is the only conservative amongst all the other false prophets who claim to be conservative in the republican party and you see how he is treated, like a crackpot.
Voting Repub Or Dem is voting against our interests-
Get behind Dr Ron Paul, he might be our last hope.
Register Republican and vote Paul in the primaries
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Are you a doctor? Have you worked for twenty years and are now sitting on six million bucks?

If not once again I ask, why are you siding with the one percent? Do you still believe anyone can become a millionaire by working hard?

Your ending statement sir really is the whole point of all the tax talk. People like you think only of themselves. That's the point, it isn't taxes, you don't want to share the wealth. A rising tide should lift all boats, not just the yachts.
The day marijuana is legal and I can have my dream of a marijuana plantation, I should share my knowledge, which is what I'd be doing by distributing the wealth, for free to you, not of my own free will? Think again, buddy! It's not only money you're taking, it's all the effort and intelligence you also stole. Along with stealing my pride in what I did. And my disdain you did nothing.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
Ayn Rand: &#8220;The Forgotten Man of Socialized Medicine&#8221;

We may not have the sort of &#8220;public option&#8221; Rand had in mind when she wrote this in Atlas Shrugged, but it&#8217;s still a potent reminder of why we fight against statism:

&#8220;I quit when medicine was placed under state control, some years ago,&#8221; said Dr. Hendricks. &#8220;Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything &#8212; except the desires of the doctors. Men considered only the &#8216;welfare&#8217; of the patients, with no thought for those who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right, desire or choice in the matter, was regarded as irrelevant selfishness; his is not to choose, they said, only &#8216;to serve.&#8217; That a man who&#8217;s willing to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrust with a job in the stockyards &#8212; never occurred to those who proposed to help the sick by making life impossible for the healthy. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind &#8212; yet what is it that they expect to depend upon, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims. Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it &#8212; and still elss safe, if he is the sort who doesn&#8217;t.

Sizzling prose. Few ever talk about how the doctor works so hard to achieve what he does &#8212; his labor is talked about like it&#8217;s silly putty for the state to play with. Shouldn&#8217;t the doctor be able to choose the terms he sees his patients on, how much he charges, and what their relationship is? No, says the state. No, says the Democratic Party &#8212; and much of the Republican Party, sadly. Voluntary relationships based on mutual agreement are a thing of the past. And it would be awfully selfish to not submit your will to what politicians want &#8212; or, worse still, what the &#8220;people&#8221; want. Right?
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Charlie,

Rand was a fool. She was just a bitter person. It didn't matter if you were for her ideals but did so differently. She despised you. She was an INTJ complainer. I may not have much but I'm still happy with my ENFP self.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
Charlie,

Rand was a fool. She was just a bitter person. It didn't matter if you were for her ideals but did so differently. She despised you. She was an INTJ complainer. I may not have much but I'm still happy with my ENFP self.
Ayn Rand was born in Russia and witnessed the 1917 revolution first hand. She graduated from the University in Leningrad and as a young woman came to the United States. She is one who witnessed the Communist take over in Russia and understood what empty slogans and old bromides such as "Hope and Change" really means. She understood the greatness of Man's mind and the evil of those who set out to destroy it. I have never met a conservative or a libertarian that takes issue with Rand's writings. Its always progressives and left wingers. Why is that?

You call her a fool? Based upon what, exactly? Why did you attack Rand and not take issue with the excerpt from "Atlas Shrugged" that I posted above? Are you just taking a page out of Saul Alinski's book and attacking the messenger instead of the message?

 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
But what are the solutions?
Form a drum circle
Advocate for Communism?
No central leadership, no solutions a bunch of people getting together with no reason other than they are unhappy You know what you get?

The Tea Party<--------And those people suck
You have to keep in mind that the media is only showing pictures that enforces the negative stereotypes of the protesters, because the media is owned by the targets of the protests. The media isn't showing the majority of average working class people attending these protests. Instead they show a picture of a drum circle or the one one guy advocating communism so the public will dismiss the protesters as a bunch of hippies. But that's not really what these protests are at all. These aren't huge drum circle gatherings. Most people there have probably never played a drum in their lives. But the media finds the drum circle and takes a picture of that so you associate the protests with drum circles.

So when you see media photos of the protests, remember that they are owned by the 1% and showing you only what they want you to see. The perception of what they show is not the same as the reality of the people attending the protests.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Im working right now making double time wages. I aint ever going to be a millionaire. Not even working 7 days a week
No one earns a billion dollars simply by working hard. 1.2 billion dollars is the life time earnings of 1000 Americans. It's physically impossible to work as hard as 1000 people.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
No one earns a billion dollars simply by working hard. 1.2 billion dollars is the life time earnings of 1000 Americans. It's physically impossible to work as hard as 1000 people.
One of the fallacies about wealth creation is that one has to work hard PHYSICALLY. How "hard" did Steve Jobs and Bill Gates work?

The key to wealth creation is to find out what people want, then fill that need better than anyone else. In other words, help as many people as possible to get what THEY want first.

By your assertions, a jack hammer operator or a hod carrier should make as much or more than an outstanding salesperson or the owner of a McDonald's franchise, right?
 

tomcatjones

Active Member
Ayn Rand: &#8220;The Forgotten Man of Socialized Medicine&#8221;

We may not have the sort of &#8220;public option&#8221; Rand had in mind when she wrote this in Atlas Shrugged, but it&#8217;s still a potent reminder of why we fight against statism:

&#8220;I quit when medicine was placed under state control, some years ago,&#8221; said Dr. Hendricks. &#8220;Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything &#8212; except the desires of the doctors. Men considered only the &#8216;welfare&#8217; of the patients, with no thought for those who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right, desire or choice in the matter, was regarded as irrelevant selfishness; his is not to choose, they said, only &#8216;to serve.&#8217; That a man who&#8217;s willing to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrust with a job in the stockyards &#8212; never occurred to those who proposed to help the sick by making life impossible for the healthy. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind &#8212; yet what is it that they expect to depend upon, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims. Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it &#8212; and still elss safe, if he is the sort who doesn&#8217;t.

Sizzling prose. Few ever talk about how the doctor works so hard to achieve what he does &#8212; his labor is talked about like it&#8217;s silly putty for the state to play with. Shouldn&#8217;t the doctor be able to choose the terms he sees his patients on, how much he charges, and what their relationship is? No, says the state. No, says the Democratic Party &#8212; and much of the Republican Party, sadly. Voluntary relationships based on mutual agreement are a thing of the past. And it would be awfully selfish to not submit your will to what politicians want &#8212; or, worse still, what the &#8220;people&#8221; want. Right?

but yet most doctors i have spoken with are on their way because of the money at then end, not the good deeds or the love of the skill and job like she suggests.
 

dukeanthony

New Member
but yet most doctors i have spoken with are on their way because of the money at then end, not the good deeds or the love of the skill and job like she suggests.
Chiropractors are about nothing but the money. they start learning Business "enhancement" skills While still attending School
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Anyone on here part of the one percent of the wealthiest Americans?

I've been breezing through some of the political threads and am rather perplexed as to why so many people side with the one percent of the wealthiest americans. Why do so many people worry about what their tax rate is when the wealthiest and most powerful in america have loopholes and offshore accounts to hide their money and pay a relatively low tax rate, if any, on their money and most of their money is made on investments which is not earned income and can't be taxed as such.

Why do so many people vote against their own best interests if they are not part of the one percent?

If you are part of the one percent, are your taxes too high?
Your simplistic reasoning underscores the fatal flaw of Democracy.

Alexis de Toqueville wrote:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
You seem to believe that the only reason to vote is in service to one's own self interest. :dunce:

Democracy is Mob Rule.

But, the United States was not established as a Democracy. It was established as a Confederation of States. But the Confederation proved too unruly.

So another system of government, a Republic, was established under a Constitution six years after the Battle of Yorktown.

A Republic, with a Federal government bound by a Constitution. With the individual states granted plenary power to govern as they see fit as long as they conformed to the Constitution.

I suppose it did not occur to you that people who may not be part of the 1% vote Conservative because they believe in LIMITED government.

In INDIVIDUAL freedom.

In LIBERTY.

For some, principle rises above any temptation to elect Democratic politicians who loot the Public Treasury in exchange for votes.

Do you ask Wealthy Democrats, and there are plenty of them, why they vote against THEIR self interests?

Why do I have a feeling your answer would be no?

Are Democrats the ONLY principled voters in the political spectrum?

Why do I have a feeling your answer would be yes? :-P
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Charlie,

Rand was a cold and heartless person. She was inhuman. It didn't matter if something was good and didn't harm anyone, if perceived it as a threat and violated individual rights, she abhored you. She left Nathaniel Brandon because he chose life and argued the unborn have individual rights too. She was against anything she condidered mysticism, like ESP. Which meant anything that wasn't absolute. Nothing is absolute. She was against your Feelings getting the way of reality and had to be always her rational way of Thinking. Others Feelings were of no concern to her. She always thought of herself, Introverted, and wasn't an outgoing, Extroverted, person. She was into Judging others, you were either against her or for her. Everything was black and white to her. No one else had the right to Percieve anything different than her. She was the antithesis of what a humanist is all about. To her there was no such things as exceptions.

You want to know why I hate what she wrote there too? Having access to medicine, no matter how rich or poor, is a fundamental right to becoming a civilized people. It's in the best interests of all to have a healthy people. Without healthy people, no one will be able to perform the services you need and require.Even other doctors can't treat themselves when things become too extreme or not part of their specialty. It's your right to not be altruistic. Just like that medicine man chose to opt out. But don't be shocked when others aren't altruistic back once they know who you are. Even the so called ultra libertarian hero Ron Paul said it would be cruel to just let the person die because they didn't follow some stupid stipulation which denied care. Rand would have felt nothing and cheered their stupidy as they died. That's why she's a fool to me.

That's the crux of the matter. Had the system been in place beforehand, that medicine man wouldn't be in that situation. So yes it sucks that he didn't know what he would later be getting into. But, just because one unfair institution is in place would be unfair to those already members of said institution if it were changed, doesn't mean the institution can't be changed. It's the same excuse unions use which she was against. She was a hypocrite, yet always accused others of being one. At times I can seem quite cruel, but afterwards be very remorseful. She was cruel and would justify it with her cult beliefs. Again, just like religion does which she despised as well. When I was younger I thought the same as her, even pertaining to abortion. I grew up. She never did.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
One of the fallacies about wealth creation is that one has to work hard PHYSICALLY. How "hard" did Steve Jobs and Bill Gates work?


Not that hard at all. They didn't even invent the stuff that got them rich. Largely they got wealthy off the labor of others.

The key to wealth creation is to find out what people want, then fill that need better than anyone else. In other words, help as many people as possible to get what THEY want first.
You mean like when an oil speculator buys up oil, withholds it from the market creating an artificial shortage, and then sells it back to us at an inflated rate? Yeah, how could we ever get by without those brave job creators....

By your assertions, a jack hammer operator or a hod carrier should make as much or more than an outstanding salesperson or the owner of a McDonald's franchise, right?
No. I agree there should be financial incentives. But there needs to be certain regulations. Should the guy who operates the jack hammer really be forced to choose between buying groceries and paying rent just so the shareholder who does no work of any kind can rake in record profits? Should the fry cooker at McDonalds really get their health care insurance cut denying them from access to preventative medicine and end up dying from a treatable disease because a stockholder at McDonalds can buy a new jet?

I've got no problem with financial incentives for those who earn their money. I do have a problem with profiteering at the expense of the American people.
 
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