70gal RDWC Waterfall update

Alright, it wasn’t the most fun I had at 3am on a Monday night, but I got it done. After the idea was planted to update my month old system to waterfalls I just had to do it ASAP. I currently have a grow on the go but I am at half capacity so it worked out. Systems is 5x25gal totes filed to 70g. I built a perimeter manifold to feed each site, each site is fed with a 20” manifold with 4 5/16th holes. Using the same mag drive supreme 1800 it seems to be pretty good, I would of preferred a bit more, I had a hard time deciding how big to drill the 16 holes, would do 1/4inch if I could go back. I’m still running 65 watts of air to 4 nano ceramic stones and a couple 2” barrels in the main res. The main res also has a small feed waterfall. Complete drain and fill, vacuumed the sites for shits and giggles and did a refill half and half RO/filtered tap. Top up full nutes and away we go! I’m just looking forward to clipping in that 1k de hps, be awhile yet. Water levels maybe 1-1.5” too high right now, got carried away.

Couple video links, no sound. Manifold and main res
Main res
Mainifold
Dialed in, actually upped it to 860.

Manifolds

J232 said:

Alright, it wasn’t the most fun I had at 3am on a Monday night, but I got it done. After the idea was planted to update my month old system to waterfalls I just had to do it ASAP. I currently have a grow on the go but I am at half capacity so it worked out. Systems is 5x25gal totes filed to 70g. I built a perimeter manifold to feed each site, each site is fed with a 20” manifold with 4 5/16th holes. Using the same mag drive supreme 1800 it seems to be pretty good, I would of preferred a bit more, I had a hard time deciding how big to drill the 16 holes, would do 1/4inch if I could go back. I’m still running 65 watts of air to 4 nano ceramic stones and a couple 2” barrels in the main res. The main res also has a small feed waterfall. Complete drain and fill, vacuumed the sites for shits and giggles and did a refill half and half RO/filtered tap. Top up full nutes and away we go! I’m just looking forward to clipping in that 1k de hps, be awhile yet.View attachment 4556773

Couple video links, no sound. Manifold and main res

http://imgur.com/a/cEL89gx

http://imgur.com/a/SSnsI0Y

Dialed in, actually upped it to 860.
View attachment 4556777
Manifolds
View attachment 4556778

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You finished it! It looks so good dude! I'm so glad.
I know it's hard to break up with air pumps and stones but I'm telling you... You can let them go. It'd just a waste of electricity, time, and a possible doorway for contamination to get blown right into your water. Lose em!
I promise you'll see no change.
Your waterfalls are a BIT less pressurized then you'd like, but that can be fixed by a bigger pump. But I can't tell, did you use 3/4 PVC and then at the elbows and tees, use a bushing to downsize to 1/2' PVC? Cause that might be your problem right there. Or are they all, as far as you can tell, equally pressurized?

Airwalker16 said:

You finished it! It looks so good dude! I'm so glad.
I know it's hard to break up with air pumps and stones but I'm telling you... You can let them go. It'd just a waste of electricity, time, and a possible doorway for contamination to get blown right into your water. Lose em!
I promise you'll see no change.
Your waterfalls are a BIT less pressurized then you'd like, but that can be fixed by a bigger pump. But I can't tell, did you use 3/4 PVC and then at the elbows and tees, use a bushing to downsize to 1/2' PVC? Cause that might be your problem right there. Or are they all, as far as you can tell, equally pressurized?

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Thanks man, thanks for the help as well. It’s all 3/4” the only thing different size is the pump feed is 1”. I kinda thought I was pushing it for holes. To top it all off my pumps seeping now and my best guess is the pump body... not sure, I’m ignoring it for now haha. I believe you on the air stones, I’m glad you understand the separation anxiety, I thought if anything they will help stir the water mass. Everything is equal pressure from what I can see other then the main res. I’m going to be breaking the 2k gph on a new pump, anything you would recommend. I have to fix the leak, it’s enough to maintain a wet spot. I will ditch the stones after a pump upgrade.. promise lol. Here’s a close up with sound. 2 of the hole or one side of a bar.

Close up

Using waterfall and air is like silicon on a seal right? Here’s another pic of the manifold installed. Progress pic, you can see the feed running up the middle still.

J232 said:

View attachment 4556779
Using waterfall and air is like silicon on a seal right? Here’s another pic of the manifold installed. Progress pic, you can see the feed running up the middle still.

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What do you mean the feed? How far away is the res? That pipe in the middle on the floor is looong.
As far as pumps, mines only like 450gph and kicks ass, but is submerged. Inlines a way better design. Wish I'd done it.

@fragileassassin @Axion42

Airwalker16 said:

What do you mean the feed? How far away is the res? That pipe in the middle on the floor is looong.
As far as pumps, mines only like 450gph and kicks ass, but is submerged. Inlines a way better design. Wish I'd done it.

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Oh I just meant the old 1” line that was drawing the water before I switched it. I think I’m going to grab a new impeller for the pump. I see today I have some leaf markings on a couple plants, I was dumb and when I drained the system I left the light on, plants flattened hard.. ended up panicking and started refilling as I finished the pump, prob had a hard ph swing for about a 1/2 to a hour. Wasn’t ideal anyways, I feel I’m already dancing a fine line, will see how it looks in another day, they seem to respond to stuff in 2-3 days.

Just looking them over a bit better, it really looks like a ph fluctuation, does hydro respond that quick, like 1-2 hours on a different drink, whatever it was, should be ok now, definitely did not like renos.

If you fix the impeller on your pump, I really think you could get away with using it still if you just reduce to 1/2" after each tee/elbow. You're at the point now where you've glued everything, so you can't just take out the 3/4" from the tote side of those elbows and tees, BUT you COULD still at least just use 3/4-1/2" reducing couplings.
You'd just cut however long you'd need to fit the coupling onto the PVC so that it's as short of a distance as possible, and just go to 1/2" the same way you did originally. You'd have smaller in tote spray bars and you could re-do your holes to 1/4" like you wanted. Just an idea but I know if it were my system, that's what I'd do. A bunch cheaper than buying a new pump.

Airwalker16 said:

If you fix the impeller on your pump, I really think you could get away with using it still if you just reduce to 1/2" after each tee/elbow. You're at the point now where you've glued everything, so you can't just take out the 3/4" from the tote side of those elbows and tees, BUT you COULD still at least just use 3/4-1/2" reducing couplings.
You'd just cut however long you'd need to fit the coupling onto the PVC so that it's as short of a distance as possible, and just go to 1/2" the same way you did originally. You'd have smaller in tote spray bars and you could re-do your holes to 1/4" like you wanted. Just an idea but I know if it were my system, that's what I'd do. A bunch cheaper than buying a new pump.

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I found some 3/4” unions I was going to add later. Would make the spray bars removable. I bought this pump used so I’m pretty sure replacing the impeller after some reseach will juice it back up. If I want to increase pressure, after that, I would start with plugging 1 or 2 of 4 holes per site, I might try that today anyway just to see what happens. New impeller is about $50, a 2400gph danner replacement is closer to $250. Honestly I want to see the water penetrate about 1/2 way into the water. Going to try plugging the 2 inside holes I think. That would double the system pressure and leave 2 5/16 waterfalls per site, more then 1/2”.

J232 said:

I found some 3/4” unions I was going to add later. Would make the spray bars removable. I bought this pump used so I’m pretty sure replacing the impeller after some reseach will juice it back up. If I want to increase pressure, after that, I would start with plugging 1 or 2 of 4 holes per site, I might try that today anyway just to see what happens. New impeller is about $50, a 2400gph danner replacement is closer to $250. Honestly I want to see the water penetrate about 1/2 way into the water. Going to try plugging the 2 inside holes I think. That would double the system pressure and leave 2 5/16 waterfalls per site, more then 1/2”.

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Just get an ecoplus. You do NOT NEED 2400GPH. No where near that. @fragileassassin can chime in his thoughts.


.https://www.amazon.com/EcoPlus-Submersible-Aquarium-Fountain-Hydroponics/dp/B07QXBM4B9/ref=mp_s_a_1_33?dchild=1&keywords=ecoplus+water+pump&qid=1588796115&sr=8-33

Airwalker16 said:

Just get an ecoplus. You do NOT NEED 2400GPH. No where near that. @fragileassassin can chime in his thoughts.


.https://www.amazon.com/EcoPlus-Submersible-Aquarium-Fountain-Hydroponics/dp/B07QXBM4B9/ref=mp_s_a_1_33?dchild=1&keywords=ecoplus+water+pump&qid=1588796115&sr=8-33

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Well my 1800 should out perform that 1000, will replace the impeller plug one hole and call it good. 17 5/16” holes is equivalent to one hole just about a 1.5” basically pumping the same as my old setup @ 2 x 3/4 waterfalls. This pump has a 16ft shutoff. Would be like 7psi I think or roughly if you calculate it. A 5/16” hole has a area of .077. The 1/4 holes would of been perfect. Or replace my impeller so my math is right lol. Going to thread bolts onto half the holes and see what happens, will get me a better idea of where I want to be. Was originally only going to do 2 holes one each end but didn’t want to add holes later.

J232 said:

Well my 1800 should out perform that 1000, will replace the impeller plug one hole and call it good. 17 5/16” holes is equivalent to one hole just about a 1.5” basically pumping the same as my old setup @ 2 x 3/4 waterfalls. This pump has a 16ft shutoff. Would be like 7psi I think or roughly if you calculate it. A 5/16” hole has a area of .077. The 1/4 holes would of been perfect. Or replace my impeller so my math is right lol. Going to thread bolts onto half the holes and see what happens, will get me a better idea of where I want to be. Was originally only going to do 2 holes one each end but didn’t want to add holes later.

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I'm almost positive your mistaking the 1800LITRES per hour for GALLONS per hour. That pump doesn't look like its putting out 1800gph to me.

Airwalker16 said:

I'm almost positive your mistaking the 1800LITRES per hour for GALLONS per hour. That pump doesn't look like its putting out 1800gph to me.

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No mistakes here, this link has the specs. Some hate danner, it think the quality is nice, things are bricks. I have a 800gph vivohome or something here that isn’t even in the same class. The impeller can very well be worn out, I have no idea how many hours this pump has on it, if it was a pond pump it could well worn as some guys say they do the impeller yearly to keep the fountain pressure consistent.

Specs

Not surprised it started leaking. Ive yet to try a cheaper mag pump that actually worked inline like its supposed to. Most of them dont seal right and have to be submerged.
You dont need a bigger pump, thats just going to make more heat and cause you other problems. If you arent happy with the agitation, fix your holes imo. There's too many for that big of a hole.
I used an 800gph mag pump on a 6 site 60 gallon system and it was more than enough. I have a 1400 that feeds 12 sites strong enough its uncomfortable to hold your hand under it.

If you're going to spend money on a more expensive pump, make sure you get a DC pump not an expensive mag pump.
I have the 2100GPH version of this one and run it at 40% in my 6 site flower setup. I went big so I can also use it as a transfer pump when needed and to replace the 1400gph heater in the 12 site veg setup.

Everyone wants to go huge one the pumps lately for some reason.
Its not going to be any better for your plants.
Its going to use 10x as much electricity as you need to be. An 1800gph mag pump is probably pulling 1.5-2 amps
All that extra power being used translates pretty directly to more heat produced by it. Even running inline itll heat your water up forcing you to run a chiller or making your chiller run way more than it needs to.

fragileassassin said:

fix your holes imo. There's too many for that big of a hole

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agreed. i think mine were 1/8"
if that doesn't fix it, do like airwlaker said and reduce from 3/4 to 1/2

I use 4 1/8" holes in a pvc cap on each site in both systems with the pump sizes I said above.

fragileassassin said:

Not surprised it started leaking. Ive yet to try a cheaper mag pump that actually worked inline like its supposed to. Most of them dont seal right and have to be submerged.
You dont need a bigger pump, thats just going to make more heat and cause you other problems. If you arent happy with the agitation, fix your holes imo. There's too many for that big of a hole.
I used an 800gph mag pump on a 6 site 60 gallon system and it was more than enough. I have a 1400 that feeds 12 sites strong enough its uncomfortable to hold your hand under it.

If you're going to spend money on a more expensive pump, make sure you get a DC pump not an expensive mag pump.
I have the 2100GPH version of this one and run it at 40% in my 6 site flower setup. I went big so I can also use it as a transfer pump when needed and to replace the 1400gph heater in the 12 site veg setup.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MV4JMB3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Everyone wants to go huge one the pumps lately for some reason.
Its not going to be any better for your plants.
Its going to use 10x as much electricity as you need to be. An 1800gph mag pump is probably pulling 1.5-2 amps
All that extra power being used translates pretty directly to more heat produced by it. Even running inline itll heat your water up forcing you to run a chiller or making your chiller run way more than it needs to.

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I paid 100cad for the pump so it’s hard not too for that price. I’m going to keep the configuration, fix the leak and throw and impeller in it. I agree on the dc pumps. This pump is what I decided on 3 years ago, yeah been sitting on this project that long. I did put a cover and seal on the pump but when I moved it I think I cracked the pvc glue on a fitting I re used. I heard these pumps leak as well.

Its just kinda a been there tried it and it failed type thing for me. I understand using what you already have, just trying to talk you out of wasting more money on bigger mag pumps you dont need and shouldnt run.
I tried to make this setup work like this so hard and tried several different mag pumps.

Any way I did it I needed a 1200+ gph pump for 12 sites and it forced me to hook it up to the chiller. The pumps I had were actually worse inline and made the chiller run nearly constantly. It was actually better submerged.

You dont need any more surface agitation than you can see in my picture above.
Thats one of my current plants in a 17 gallon tote, should be ready for harvest any time now. Ive run it this way for several cycles and keep it at 70F and have had 0 issues since. I also dont do any site cleaning during the cycle. Its stayed that clean since Late january without me wiping anything out and I get almost no settling with the flow I have.

J232 said:

I’m going to keep the configuration

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more aeration at each tote is way more important than how big the pump is IMO. i used a submersible at only 400 gph with about 40 gallons and it was fine. but i had a very strong waterfall in each tote.