Best source for regular (nonfem.) seeds

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
They will adept with selection. You would need to pick for faster flowering if thats a trait you want. You would need to select for mold resistance if thats what you want. You would select plants that didnt mold alongside others that did. That is if you have some plants that mold, and some that dont. You would also need to select Males for the same reason, and it would be best, if you could keep the best selected Males, from year to year, and backcross them. They will adapt some, but will adept much faster through selective breeding, and selection.
 

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
They will adept with selection. You would need to pick for faster flowering if thats a trait you want. You would need to select for mold resistance if thats what you want. You would select plants that didnt mold alongside others that did. That is if you have some plants that mold, and some that dont. You would also need to select Males for the same reason, and it would be best, if you could keep the best selected Males, from year to year, and backcross them. They will adapt some, but will adept much faster through selective breeding, and selection.
I get selective breeding, but are you saying that over successive generations the plants won't adapt to local climate and conditions?

Isn't it true that seeds that come from outdoor-raised plants are more resilient outdoors that seeds that come from indoor-raised plants? If so, that suggests that environment/growing conditions have an effect on the plant's traits over time.
 

thumper60

Well-Known Member
I get selective breeding, but are you saying that over successive generations the plants won't adapt to local climate and conditions?

Isn't it true that seeds that come from outdoor-raised plants are more resilient outdoors that seeds that come from indoor-raised plants? If so, that suggests that environment/growing conditions have an effect on the plant's traits over time.
They will adapt but not in your life time so we help them along by selecting traits we want an keep working it.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
I get selective breeding, but are you saying that over successive generations the plants won't adapt to local climate and conditions?

Isn't it true that seeds that come from outdoor-raised plants are more resilient outdoors that seeds that come from indoor-raised plants? If so, that suggests that environment/growing conditions have an effect on the plant's traits over time.
The key word there is over time. Like decades. Just think, the Spanish brought marijuana to the new world, and it took hundreds of years to geet what they have now, or had. Most of th very best Land Races have been destroyed. Starting with Nixon, and his paraquat, and then the war in Colombia, and then the switch from weed, to coke plants.
Nixon had a really devastating affect on the old Mexican landraces in the early-mid 70s. Some of those old landraces were the best of the best. Oaxacan, Michoacan. I remember getting hose in the early 70s, and they would literally blow your head clean off. Seeds and all. But by 1974, the majority of these strains were gone, or all but gone.
In 1974, there was a really big eed drough all summer. No good weed to be found. Then after the summer, Colombian started trickling in. Before 74, you rarely sw alot of colombian. Not saying you never saw it, but Mexicans were par for the course. Unless you knew someone importing Colombian. I was lucky eough to have an older friend, whos older brother worked for a shipping company out of Key West, and he used to bing in about 50lbs of Colombian a month. He did this from about 1970-77. And lot of the time, when he would bring in the 50lbs, they sold it by the lb, and no oz, and much of it went out of town to bigger cities, so sometimes it wasnt available here in the home town. But starting in late 74, Mexican was always labeled as shit weed, and colombian became the norm. Reds, and Gold. With Red being more common. Then in 75, paraquated Mexican started showing up. I remember one time there was some going around called Diesel Weed. It smelled just like diesel fuel. I wouldnt smoke it. One time a carload of us were driving around, and someone lit up a jint of it, and after a few hits, the shit caught on fire on the end. A in there was a fucking flame on the end of the joint. And Like I said, I wouldnt smoke it.Then there was another type, they called cat food. And it did the same shit. It would combust aftr a few hits, and people would still smoke it. A buddy of mines little brother smoked some of it, and had a stroke. He was 14 years old. He told a dr what he had smoked, and dr said it was most likely Paraquat. He lived, and is still alive.
But back to the subject. It takes an extremely long time for plants to stabilize on their own to a new environment, and it takes literally thousands of plants each generation, if you expect it to adapt, and keep the best traits.
But by seective breeding, and selection, you can make this happen much faster, BUT, if you breed for certain characteristics, such as mold resistance, and faster finishing times, you may also sacrifice Potency in the process. Nothing says the very best plants are going to have the traits you want, and are breeding for. So theres a trade off.
 

mandocat

Well-Known Member
The key word there is over time. Like decades. Just think, the Spanish brought marijuana to the new world, and it took hundreds of years to geet what they have now, or had. Most of th very best Land Races have been destroyed. Starting with Nixon, and his paraquat, and then the war in Colombia, and then the switch from weed, to coke plants.
Nixon had a really devastating affect on the old Mexican landraces in the early-mid 70s. Some of those old landraces were the best of the best. Oaxacan, Michoacan. I remember getting hose in the early 70s, and they would literally blow your head clean off. Seeds and all. But by 1974, the majority of these strains were gone, or all but gone.
In 1974, there was a really big eed drough all summer. No good weed to be found. Then after the summer, Colombian started trickling in. Before 74, you rarely sw alot of colombian. Not saying you never saw it, but Mexicans were par for the course. Unless you knew someone importing Colombian. I was lucky eough to have an older friend, whos older brother worked for a shipping company out of Key West, and he used to bing in about 50lbs of Colombian a month. He did this from about 1970-77. And lot of the time, when he would bring in the 50lbs, they sold it by the lb, and no oz, and much of it went out of town to bigger cities, so sometimes it wasnt available here in the home town. But starting in late 74, Mexican was always labeled as shit weed, and colombian became the norm. Reds, and Gold. With Red being more common. Then in 75, paraquated Mexican started showing up. I remember one time there was some going around called Diesel Weed. It smelled just like diesel fuel. I wouldnt smoke it. One time a carload of us were driving around, and someone lit up a jint of it, and after a few hits, the shit caught on fire on the end. A in there was a fucking flame on the end of the joint. And Like I said, I wouldnt smoke it.Then there was another type, they called cat food. And it did the same shit. It would combust aftr a few hits, and people would still smoke it. A buddy of mines little brother smoked some of it, and had a stroke. He was 14 years old. He told a dr what he had smoked, and dr said it was most likely Paraquat. He lived, and is still alive.
But back to the subject. It takes an extremely long time for plants to stabilize on their own to a new environment, and it takes literally thousands of plants each generation, if you expect it to adapt, and keep the best traits.
But by seective breeding, and selection, you can make this happen much faster, BUT, if you breed for certain characteristics, such as mold resistance, and faster finishing times, you may also sacrifice Potency in the process. Nothing says the very best plants are going to have the traits you want, and are breeding for. So theres a trade off.
Oregon Green Seeds has already spent decades breeding for mold resistance, faster flowering and respectable potentcy, as have several other breeders. And they are bred for outdoor PNW growing, though they often grow well indoors. Why not take advantage of all the hard work they have already put in and use their work as a starting point?
 

conor c

Well-Known Member
I get selective breeding, but are you saying that over successive generations the plants won't adapt to local climate and conditions?

Isn't it true that seeds that come from outdoor-raised plants are more resilient outdoors that seeds that come from indoor-raised plants? If so, that suggests that environment/growing conditions have an effect on the plant's traits over time.
Even so it would turn hempy in time unless your in a special hot spot for cannabis especially in the northern hemisphere without mans influence potency would slide massively without selection so you would end up with something few would want even if it could sustain its population in this theoretical situation
 

mandocat

Well-Known Member
Even so it would turn hempy in time unless your in a special hot spot for cannabis especially in the northern hemisphere without mans influence potency would slide massively without selection so you would end up with something few would want even if it could sustain its population in this theoretical situation
Yes, man's influence has become a part of cannabis' enviornment throughout the planet! We select traits we desire and the plant becomes more successful at propogation! We have similar relationships with a host of plants and animals. Here is an excellent book about this! https://michaelpollan.com/books/the-botany-of-desire/
 

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
The key word there is over time. Like decades. Just think, the Spanish brought marijuana to the new world, and it took hundreds of years to geet what they have now, or had. Most of th very best Land Races have been destroyed. Starting with Nixon, and his paraquat, and then the war in Colombia, and then the switch from weed, to coke plants.
Nixon had a really devastating affect on the old Mexican landraces in the early-mid 70s. Some of those old landraces were the best of the best. Oaxacan, Michoacan. I remember getting hose in the early 70s, and they would literally blow your head clean off. Seeds and all. But by 1974, the majority of these strains were gone, or all but gone.
In 1974, there was a really big eed drough all summer. No good weed to be found. Then after the summer, Colombian started trickling in. Before 74, you rarely sw alot of colombian. Not saying you never saw it, but Mexicans were par for the course. Unless you knew someone importing Colombian. I was lucky eough to have an older friend, whos older brother worked for a shipping company out of Key West, and he used to bing in about 50lbs of Colombian a month. He did this from about 1970-77. And lot of the time, when he would bring in the 50lbs, they sold it by the lb, and no oz, and much of it went out of town to bigger cities, so sometimes it wasnt available here in the home town. But starting in late 74, Mexican was always labeled as shit weed, and colombian became the norm. Reds, and Gold. With Red being more common. Then in 75, paraquated Mexican started showing up. I remember one time there was some going around called Diesel Weed. It smelled just like diesel fuel. I wouldnt smoke it. One time a carload of us were driving around, and someone lit up a jint of it, and after a few hits, the shit caught on fire on the end. A in there was a fucking flame on the end of the joint. And Like I said, I wouldnt smoke it.Then there was another type, they called cat food. And it did the same shit. It would combust aftr a few hits, and people would still smoke it. A buddy of mines little brother smoked some of it, and had a stroke. He was 14 years old. He told a dr what he had smoked, and dr said it was most likely Paraquat. He lived, and is still alive.
But back to the subject. It takes an extremely long time for plants to stabilize on their own to a new environment, and it takes literally thousands of plants each generation, if you expect it to adapt, and keep the best traits.
But by seective breeding, and selection, you can make this happen much faster, BUT, if you breed for certain characteristics, such as mold resistance, and faster finishing times, you may also sacrifice Potency in the process. Nothing says the very best plants are going to have the traits you want, and are breeding for. So theres a trade off.
Wow sounds like you've been around the mj block a few times! I was a bit young for weed in 74! Although I certainly remember the hippies my parents hung around with in Vermont back then had plenty. Probably most of what I had in high school during the eighties was Mexican (seedy and brown), but when I went to college in Colorado during the late eighties that's when I started to experience some really fine stuff.

I've never heard of paraquat before, just Google it, man that sounds bad. Big reason I started growing my own a few years ago is so I know for sure that it's clean. Hate to think how many chemicals I exposed myself to over the years buying stuff I had no idea where it came from.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Wow sounds like you've been around the mj block a few times! I was a bit young for weed in 74! Although I certainly remember the hippies my parents hung around with in Vermont back then had plenty. Probably most of what I had in high school during the eighties was Mexican (seedy and brown), but when I went to college in Colorado during the late eighties that's when I started to experience some really fine stuff.

I've never heard of paraquat before, just Google it, man that sounds bad. Big reason I started growing my own a few years ago is so I know for sure that it's clean. Hate to think how many chemicals I exposed myself to over the years buying stuff I had no idea where it came from.
Ive been smoking weed since 1967. Ive seen a lot of weed.
 

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
Just curious--they say the THC percentage in most strains these days is much higher than back in the sixties, seventies, even eighties and nineties. What's your experience been on that count?

Personally I think THC has been way over-hyped and I've become much more interested in terpenes and other cannabinoids in addition to THC. Also at some point I started to realize that smaller doses (as in 2-3 puffs rather than a whole joint) can be a much more enjoyable experience, even more intense because you're not completely zonked out.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Youre right. Total THC content is way overhyped. The best stuff back in the 60s-70s was every bit as good, or better than all these polyhybrids. The only thing better about todays polyhybrids is that they are more easily grown. Most of the stuff from long ago, if you tried to grow it, it would never finish in most of the USA. Take Colombian for example. That stuff isnt done until late November, and most places in the USA cant even remotely finish this stuff without a greenhouse. Real Colombian takes up to 150 days to flower.
And weed in the last 35-40 years has been bred to grow well under lighting. And is much faster flowering. What modern weed allows is the average person to grow really potent weed, more easily.
But theres no way that modern weed is better than the old original landraces.

AND, its said that the DEA specifically tested inferior weed, and made it look like THC content was less than todays weed, as a propaganda scare tactic, as a way to demonize weed, and say its much more potent, and dangerous than weed from the 60s-- 70s. All I can say is they are full of shit. .I myself never saw bad weed until starting around 1974. I had the best connections, and not saying bad weed wasnt around. But I never saw bad weed. Seeded yes, but some of the best stuff ever, was loaded with seeds.
 

NewEnglandFarmer

Well-Known Member
The Pine Tar Kush and Northern Lights #5 I got is supposed to be not far removed from old landrace genetics out of the mountains in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Old school. I saw the folks that sold me the Northern Lights also had an original haze--but as you say that wouldn't be finished until well into November, just no way that would work in Maine outdoors.

Personally I'm not into growing indoors and while I don't have any evidence personally I think well-grown outdoor is superior. I get why people grew indoors when it was illegal but it's not something I'm very interested in doing myself at this point.
 
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jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Nl5 and Pin Tar Kush are both hybrids.

A good landrace Indica would be an

Underground seeds collective Black Afghani.

A good Landrace sativa would be an

AkBeanBrains Durban Poison. This Durban Poison originated from the 80s Super Sativa Seed Club, and was never hybridized. It originally cme from Mel Frank. Most other DP is hybridized. Sensi Seeds version is Hybridized.
Ace Seeds also has a pure Malawi Gold, when its not sold out.

Pure Haze is also a Hybrid, but is heavy on the Colombian Gold genetics.

Authentic Genetics Purest Indica may also be a Land Based Original. Its the basis for all northern Lights strains.
Dagga Gardens has Coastal Seeds Burmese IBL. Theyr dont 1st week of October.
 

mandocat

Well-Known Member
Nl5 and Pin Tar Kush are both hybrids.

A good landrace Indica would be an

Underground seeds collective Black Afghani.

A good Landrace sativa would be an

AkBeanBrains Durban Poison. This Durban Poison originated from the 80s Super Sativa Seed Club, and was never hybridized. It originally cme from Mel Frank. Most other DP is hybridized. Sensi Seeds version is Hybridized.
Ace Seeds also has a pure Malawi Gold, when its not sold out.

Pure Haze is also a Hybrid, but is heavy on the Colombian Gold genetics.

Authentic Genetics Purest Indica may also be a Land Based Original. Its the basis for all northern Lights strains.
Dagga Gardens has Coastal Seeds Burmese IBL. Theyr dont 1st week of October.
I always understood Pine Tar Kush, at least Tom Hill's, to be an IBL. What do you think it is a cross of?
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
All Bud has it listed as a Hybrid, bred from Pakistani Plants. Which to me says it was bred from at least 2 types of strains native to Pakistan.

They may be only 1 valley apart, but even at that, the microclimates can vary greatly. Same for Nepali, or Afghani weed. There is great variation in IBL from Nepal, and Afghanistan, even from 1 valley, to the next. Its most likely a Hybrid, of 2 IBLs that have been stabilized, which instead of making thm an IBL, they would be an Inbred Stabilized Hybrid.

Pine Tar Kush is a 100% pure indica hybrid strain that is a direct descendant of the infamous Kush strain. This infamous bud is named for its super woody flavor and insanely sticky feel. Pine Tar Kush has a taste of pungent earthy pine with a hint of woody citrus that becomes spicy upon exhale, intensifying as you continue to smoke. The aroma is just as tangy, with a skunky sweet smell that has hints of kushy citrus and pine. Pine Tar Kush buds have small and leafy super round bright neon green nugs with sparse thin orange hairs, frosty gold trichomes, and an almost dripping coating of super sticky resin. Although it's best known for its appearance and taste, Pine Tar Kush is beloved for its effects as well. The high starts with a euphoric and happy uplifting effect that leaves you blissful and slightly focused. As the high builds, you'll feel a buzzing effect in the back of your head and in your neck that relaxes you and spreads throughout the rest of your body. This body buzz will leave you sleepy and sedated with a ravenous sense of hunger that leaves you scrambling to find snacks anywhere you can before you get too sleepy to move. These effects and its powerful 18-22% average THC level make Pine Tar Kush perfect for treating conditions such as mild to moderate cases of depression, insomnia, muscle spasms or cramps, and lack of appetite.
 
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