CALLING ALL Californians

hyroot said:

purest natural organics all the way. cannabis acts as a sponge sort of speak.. phytoremediation.. cannabis its self can absorb all the bad everything. the negative part is caused the dumbasses who you use chemical nutrients and pesticedes on outdoor crops. litter everything in the forest. Recycle everything in your grow. nothing goes to waste.

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Cannabis hyper-accumulates heavy metals, and can be used to clean up toxic soils in places like land fills. Its hard to find pure natural organic nutrients without the arsenic, lead and other horrible elements. I ONLY use chemical nutrients, the kind they call "highly refined pharmaceutical grade minerals". General Hydroponics claims their three part nutrient is made with refined pharmaceutical grade minerals, I use the bloom and micro. >.> can't say anything good about pesticides though. Neem oil will make you sterile, but popular opinion says the world is over populated and needs about 90% less humans.

Dan Kone said:

It's a revised version of the Jack Herer bill. Written by people who really know how to write a law.

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Yep, even Jack Herer's wife was present during the creation of the initiative.

hyroot said:

purest natural organics all the way. cannabis acts as a sponge sort of speak.. phytoremediation.. cannabis its self can absorb all the bad everything. the negative part is caused the dumbasses who you use chemical nutrients and pesticedes on outdoor crops. litter everything in the forest. Recycle everything in your grow. nothing goes to waste.

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Exactly!!! This guy gets it. More plants is a huge plus to our environment, most obviously. The negatives, as you said, are when people synthetics & chemicals (pesticides or not) and of course, in Northern California where there are too many ops in one area, which drain the region of its natural resources, screwing with the environment's natural cycle. If its legalized, Northern Californian ops will decrease (never go away tho, haha)-> grows will be all across Cali, especially in the southern region. Get in two outdoor grows instead one, use up that sunlight and save on electricity->reduce your grow expenses and sell for lower price.

hexthat said:

Cannabis hyper-accumulates heavy metals, and can be used to clean up toxic soils in places like land fills. Its hard to find pure natural organic nutrients without the arsenic, lead and other horrible elements. I ONLY use chemical nutrients, the kind they call "highly refined pharmaceutical grade minerals". General Hydroponics claims their three part nutrient is made with refined pharmaceutical grade minerals, I use the bloom and micro. >.> can't say anything good about pesticides though. Neem oil will make you sterile, but popular opinion says the world is over populated and needs about 90% less humans.

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That's fine, you just won't be able to sell your bud legally. CCHI only allows organic growing for commercial purposes. Most growers I know tend to understand that plants are organic and it only makes sense to give em organic ingredients, unlike we do with our human bodies. But that's a WHOLE other debate, and you have every right to do as you please and disregard my own personal viewpoints.

gualapa said:

Exactly!!! This guy gets it. More plants is a huge plus to our environment, most obviously. The negatives, as you said, are when people synthetics & chemicals (pesticides or not) and of course,

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Most organic growers are ruining the soil. If you're not planting a winter cover crop then what you're doing to the soil is just as bad as using mineral based nutrients. The simple thinking that "if it's organic it must be ok" is insufficient. There is no practical difference between monoculture seasonal growing with organics and mineral nutrients if you're not taking care of your soil in the off season. Barely any growers do this.

in Northern California where there are too many ops in one area, which drain the region of its natural resources, screwing with the environment's natural cycle. If its legalized, Northern Californian ops will decrease (never go away tho, haha)-> grows will be all across Cali, especially in the southern region. Get in two outdoor grows instead one, use up that sunlight and save on electricity->reduce your grow expenses and sell for lower price.

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IMO legalization has no effect on outdoor growing since outdoor isn't being sold in stores typically. Nearly all California's outdoor bud is being exported. Outdoor will still remain a black market crop regardless of state law. It will continue as usual.

That's fine, you just won't be able to sell your bud legally. CCHI only allows organic growing for commercial purposes.

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Which is ridiculous and unenforceable. How are you going to prove someone uses chemical nutrients?

Also, I don't see whats wrong with using mineral nutrients indoors.

Most growers I know tend to understand that plants are organic and it only makes sense to give em organic ingredients, unlike we do with our human bodies.

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If you're growing indoors it makes more sense to give your plants exactly what they need when they need it. I want to give my plants heavy doses of nitrogen in veg and then flush that out when I flip them to 12/12 and start giving them PK. I don't want to mix in nitrogen into a soil and have it remain in flowering.

Despite popular myths, organics isn't always the best way to grow in every system. There is a reason nearly all top shelf bud is hydro.

gualapa said:

Yep, even Jack Herer's wife was present during the creation of the initiative.


Exactly!!! This guy gets it. More plants is a huge plus to our environment, most obviously. The negatives, as you said, are when people synthetics & chemicals (pesticides or not) and of course, in Northern California where there are too many ops in one area, which drain the region of its natural resources, screwing with the environment's natural cycle. If its legalized, Northern Californian ops will decrease (never go away tho, haha)-> grows will be all across Cali, especially in the southern region. Get in two outdoor grows instead one, use up that sunlight and save on electricity->reduce your grow expenses and sell for lower price.


That's fine, you just won't be able to sell your bud legally. CCHI only allows organic growing for commercial purposes. Most growers I know tend to understand that plants are organic and it only makes sense to give em organic ingredients, unlike we do with our human bodies. But that's a WHOLE other debate, and you have every right to do as you please and disregard my own personal viewpoints.

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Not only am I voting no on this, I am going to encourage my friends to vote no as well.

Mithrandir420 said:

Not only am I voting no on this, I am going to encourage my friends to vote no as well.

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Why? It's not as if they can enforce it. Still gets us legalization. Over all it's a good thing. If people wait for a perfect bill to come out then we will never have legalization.

The thing you have to remember about laws is that the parts of the law that are impossible to enforce don't really matter. No reason to get hung up on that part. You have to think of laws in terms of what effect they will have.

This law does not ban the sale of synthetic nutrients. There is no way to test a bud to prove that it was grown with synthetic nutrients. There is nothing that can stop you from walking into a hydro store and buying synthetics.

What it does do is allow cannabis to be grown and sold legally without the bullshit involved in getting doctors recommendations and operating as a non-profit.

Our laws in Cali are fucked and we need a new one that will allow us to act with full legitimacy without any grey area bullshit where cops can still arrest you depending on what mood the cops happen to be in at the time. I want that.

We're doing OK now. We can wait till 2016 or a little longer. I don't like their personal limits on this one and I don't like that they are trying to do stuff like add in organic only growing. It tells me that they haven't thought this through enough, or consulted with enough lawyers on it.

Also, I can wait a couple of more years till I get squeezed out by the big guys, which is what this will lead to.

Legalization is coming no doubt about it. It's a matter of when, not if. Hell this bill might actually pass because most people hear "legal weed" and vote yes without reading it anyway. (Not you, Dan Kone)

Mithrandir420 said:

We're doing OK now.

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No we aren't. Colorado is beating the shit out of us. Growers routinely get ripped off. Some still get arrested. The IRS is up everyone's ass because financially it's impossible to operate a dispensary without breaking the law. There are tons of gangsters and con artists in the business. It's far from ok.

We can wait till 2016 or a little longer.

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Wait for what? I guarantee you there will be something in that initiative which you won't like as well. There will never be a perfect ballot initiative. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

I don't like their personal limits on this one and I don't like that they are trying to do stuff like add in organic only growing. It tells me that they haven't thought this through enough, or consulted with enough lawyers on it.

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What's wrong with the personal limits?

I can wait a couple of more years till I get squeezed out by the big guys, which is what this will lead to.

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My observation is the people with this attitude get squeezed out no matter what. If you're doing doing something every day that leads you to the goal of becoming one of the big guys, then you're going to get squeezed out anyways. If you don't want to get squeezed out then you have to make sure that doesn't happen. This law won't change that for you.

Take a look around. It's happening now with or without a new law. Most people are somewhere in the process of getting squeezed out. If you don't want that to happen to you then you have to find a way to make sure it doesn't happen. Growing a few pounds a month and vending it to a dispensary isn't a career unless you're doing a major professional operation. You have to have something more to offer if you want to stick around.

Bottom line is that it's up to you if you want to stick around. Supporting prohibition isn't going to change that.

gualapa said:

That's fine, you just won't be able to sell your bud legally. CCHI only allows organic growing for commercial purposes.

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Where in CCHI 2014 does it say that? I don't see that anywhere in the bill.

The 2016 bill is backed by big business (including Monsanto). Do you really think their bill will be better for the people than CCHI? Tax will be 30% or more. You will be forced to lower prices if you plan to sell legally, just to compete with the black market -- or you could remain part of the black market, but then you're right back where you are now: a criminal risking serious consequences.

PJ Diaz said:

The 2016 bill is backed by big business (including Monsanto).

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Actually it's backed by the California Democratic Party. I've seen no evidence that Monsanto is even remotely interested in this.

Do you really think their bill will be better for the people than CCHI?

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Probably not. I think it is better to an initiative written by people rather than politicians. The problem with politicians writing this law is they will undoubtedly make concessions to appease the people who are against legalization. It's pretty stupid to make concessions to people who aren't going to support you anyways but that's usually what ends up happening.

Tax will be 30% or more.

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Speculation

You will be forced to lower prices if you plan to sell legally, just to compete with the black market -- or you could remain part of the black market, but then you're right back where you are now: a criminal risking serious consequences.

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Not really IMO.

CCHI offers protections to black market growers. It will make them less likely to be busted and allow them to operate in more of a grey area. At this point I have no involvement with the black market but I do wish them the best and certainly don't want them to go to jail. So I like anything that helps them.

As for legal growing I don't think it'll have much of an effect. The negative effects of legalization on small time growers is already happening anyways. They are getting pushed out of the business as dispensaries and larger growers take over the market. That's happening now with or without legalization. We are already passed the point of no return there. Anyone who wants to stay in the business should either be working on becoming a large scale grower, opening a dispensary, or finding a collective that will hire them. People can either do that or they are going to be out of the business within two years. Not pleasant I know, but it's the truth.

Prices in dispensaries are not related with black market prices. Dispensaries don't compete with them. The black market will always win in terms of prices because they don't have taxes or overhead. What dispensaries offer is variety. Lots of people would rather have a greater variety than a better price. That's who buys bud in dispensaries.

Wholesale prices in dispensaries will continue to drop no matter what. Dispensaries have figured out it's always cheaper and more efficient to grow their own. Growing their own will always get them better prices and the strains they want. They don't have to rely on just buying whatever happens to come through their door. Eventually that will leave the commercial growing market to larger scale growers and the dispensaries themselves. They will have no need for a guy who grows bud in his garage. As I said, this is already happening now.

So thinking of this in terms of what it will do to the wholesale price of a pound is a mute point since people won't be selling pounds to dispensaries either way.

Industry is coming whether we like it or not. It's too late to put that toothpaste back in the tube.

That leaves us with the choice of what we want that industry to look like. If we continue on the path we are on the industry will get completely taken over by scumbags, thugs, and conmen. We need legalization and regulation to keep it all honest.

But the most important thing IMO is the people who've had their lives ruined by the drug war and the people who will have their lives ruined. If we can stop that we should. CCHI expunges records and frees people from prison. How can anyone not support that?

I feel bad for anyone who does this as a living..eventually only few will be able to make it. The people who just do it on the side as a supplemental income look like they will be ok.

On a positive note, the longer it takes Californians to wake up in the 21st century, the longer growers will be able to make a decent unregulated living!

I have never cared what laws are in place or not. I grow weed regardless, and I smoke too much for limitations.

The only way I would ever stop growing illegally would be if they made it to if you turn in pot farmers they give you a huge reward. My neighbors love free weed and all that great floral smells.

Dan Kone said:

Most organic growers are ruining the soil. If you're not planting a winter cover crop then what you're doing to the soil is just as bad as using mineral based nutrients. The simple thinking that "if it's organic it must be ok" is insufficient. There is no practical difference between monoculture seasonal growing with organics and mineral nutrients if you're not taking care of your soil in the off season. Barely any growers do this.

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I use companion crops like clover and bahia grass. I do no till gardening. no bottled nutrients. No guano and no manure. All natural organics

Dan Kone said:

Which is ridiculous and unenforceable. How are you going to prove someone uses chemical nutrients?

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Usually a smoke test. most chemically grown pot is very harsh and makes you cough alot. Doesn't have much smell or taste. Where natural organic or vegan organic is very smooth and can clear a big bong without ever coughing. Very pungent scent and flavor

Dan Kone said:

If you're growing indoors it makes more sense to give your plants exactly what they need when they need it. I want to give my plants heavy doses of nitrogen in veg and then flush that out when I flip them to 12/12 and start giving them PK. I don't want to mix in nitrogen into a soil and have it remain in flowering.

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the way hydro shops tell everyone that you need high n in veg and high pk in flower is very wrong. You want an equal balance all through veg and flower. Nitrogen runs hot so it speeds up composting quite a bit. what you think winter crops provide for the soil other than humus and food for mycos

Dan Kone said:

Despite popular myths, organics isn't always the best way to grow in every system. There is a reason nearly all top shelf bud is hydro.

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you are sadly mistaken. Hydro force feeds a plant telling it when to eat and what to eat. with organics the plant is in control and eats when and what it wants. By that the plant is able to grow to its full potential. Which hydro cannot. Natural organics is always far superior in quality to any hydro. Most dispensaries will not take chem or synthetic grown pot because of patients with compromised immune systems. All those chemical stay in the pot and you absorb it when you smoke. When you flush all you are doing is ridding the plants of inorganic salt build up. With organics any nutrients in the plant after chop biodegrades with in a few days when decarboxylating ie curing. Chems and synths never break down. So might as well drink those nutrients when you smoke your chem death.

adower said:

I feel bad for anyone who does this as a living..eventually only few will be able to make it. The people who just do it on the side as a supplemental income look like they will be ok.

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My feelings exactly . That's why I don't want my rights taken away to grow my 6 plants Or some BS laws like Arizona's 25 mile rule. But............. When I do grow up I want to be a pot farmer.lol My job is kinda stressful. lol

hyroot said:

I use companion crops like clover and bahia grass. I do no till gardening. no bottled nutrients. No guano and no manure. All natural organics

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I'll bet your soil is amazing.

Usually a smoke test. most chemically grown pot is very harsh and makes you cough alot. Doesn't have much smell or taste. Where natural organic or vegan organic is very smooth and can clear a big bong without ever coughing. Very pungent scent and flavor

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Only true with poorly grown hydro. That's the result of people pushing nutrients too hard. The trick to hydro isn't pushing nutrients hard, it's giving your plants just enough to stay healthy at all times. If you do that your hydro won't taste any different than properly grown organics. It will look better though.

the way hydro shops tell everyone that you need high n in veg and high pk in flower is very wrong. You want an equal balance all through veg and flower. Nitrogen runs hot so it speeds up composting quite a bit. what you think winter crops provide for the soil other than humus and food for mycos

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That's only applicable to outdoor growing. If you're growing hydro you aren't trying to decompose anything. If you feed your plants a bunch of nitrogen in flowering with hydro your buds will taste nasty.

you are sadly mistaken. Hydro force feeds a plant telling it when to eat and what to eat. with organics the plant is in control and eats when and what it wants. By that the plant is able to grow to its full potential. Which hydro cannot. Natural organics is always far superior in quality to any hydro. Most dispensaries will not take chem or synthetic grown pot because of patients with compromised immune systems. All those chemical stay in the pot and you absorb it when you smoke.

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Bullshit.

If organics really gave superior bud then you'd see more dispensaries carry it. There is no demand for organics. Nearly all top shelf bud in every dispensary is hydro. You get more precise feeding, faster growth, bigger buds, and more developed trichrome heads with hydro.

There is zero evidence that hydro compromises immune systems. It's bullshit. Show some scientific evidence if you believe that is true.

When you flush all you are doing is ridding the plants of inorganic salt build up. With organics any nutrients in the plant after chop biodegrades with in a few days when decarboxylating ie curing. Chems and synths never break down. So might as well drink those nutrients when you smoke your chem death.

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That's not what the word decarboxylating means. Decarboxylation is the act of converting your thc acid into d9-thc. This is done by heating over 113 degrees, but generally done at 240+. It's primary purpose is for creating edibles with a psychoactive effect. You do NOT what to decarboxylate bud that you're going to smoke ahead of time. Decarboxylation destroys nearly all the terpenes in the plant. The act of lighting a bowl decarboxylates your bud. You want to wait until you smoke it to do this so you get to enjoy the benefits of your terpenes.

Decarboxylation and curing are not the same thing.

Also - Believe it or not your organic soil is still providing nutrients in chemical form to your plants. Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium are all chemicals. It doesn't matter if you get them from a biological process in your soil or through mined nutrients. They are still chemicals either way.

This is all just psudoscience invented by people in Humboldt to try to sell their outdoor when everyone pays more for hydro.

The advantage of hydro is you can give your plants exactly what they need when they need it. It's more precise than organics. This is why nearly all top shelf bud is hydro. If people were willing to pay 45-65 dollars an eighth for organics instead of hydro then everyone would be growing organics. Believe that.

This reminds me of the debates we have in the concentrate community. Last year everyone was claiming wax was poison and shatter was better for you. They got away with it until recently when labs started putting out more accurate solvent screenings and realized the opposite was true. Now they are trying to do the same thing with bubble hash. They get a lot of people repeating the same stuff so it appears to sound true, but the science says it's all bullshit.

adower said:

I feel bad for anyone who does this as a living..eventually only few will be able to make it. The people who just do it on the side as a supplemental income look like they will be ok.

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If you're seriously committed to it then it's actually an amazing time to be in the business. The key is to treat it like a career and not like a lifestyle. If you take it seriously you can do great things right now that weren't possible before. True, the days of easy money are over, but greater things are coming and it's exciting.

I'm glad the green rush is over. That was chaos. Everyone who smoked weed thought they were going to become a millionaire growing in their closet. It created unrealistic expectations and a bunch of people pulling desperate shit all the time. The fact that it's becoming a real profession now instead of just a method for lazy people to get easy money is a good thing.

We are still at a point where everyone has the opportunity. This is all just sorting out the motivated from the unmotivated.

decarb takes place when curing. its the releasing of co2 gases and bacteria . that bacterial breaks everything down even chlorophyl

you arew going to shitty dispensaries that don't care about their patients. I know of several that only carry organic and veganic meds. No solvent wax either. you would be surprised how many more people are switching to organics everyday.. theres plenty of university studies and articles that show how bad chem nutrients are for cannabis and food . it is what is .

there is a big difference between natural chemicals and man made... if you want to go that route then water is a chemical. the natural sugars in an apple are chemical. but they are not man made acids. bho , shatter its still bad, if its not made using a vaccuum oven, galvanized steal tubing, lab grade n butane, alcohol to separate the wax from butane, benzene, propane propellants, and curing for 2 weeks minimum. Then its not being made properly. either way the man made chems are still harmful to your upper respiratory system and can promote various types of cancer

hexthat said:

I have never cared what laws are in place or not. I grow weed regardless, and I smoke too much for limitations.

The only way I would ever stop growing illegally would be if they made it to if you turn in pot farmers they give you a huge reward. My neighbors love free weed and all that great floral smells.

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I just want to see folks like you keep their freedom. That's why legalization is awesome. CCHI specifically does great things for that. 10 pound limit, releasing people from jail, wiping records. All good stuff. It's everything black market growers really needed.

And the one good thing all legalization efforts have in common is that it makes "I smell marijuana" no longer probable cause for cops to preform searches.

hyroot said:

decarb takes place when curing. its the realeasing of co2 gases and bacteria . that bacterial breaks everything down even chlorophyl

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Generally when people refer to decarboxylation with growing they are referring to cannabinoid conversions, not curing.

you arew going to shitty dispensaries that don't care about their patients.

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I spent years going to every top shelf dispensary in the bay area. I've been to hundreds of dispensaries in this state. It's the same at all of them. Hydro is king. I know of a dispensary that specialized in organics. They paid a premium for indoor organics and all the best organic growers went there. They nearly went out of business doing that because no one wanted it. Now their entire top shelf is hydro even though the ownership doesn't like it.

I've been in this business as long as dispensaries have been around. I've been to more dispensaries than anyone I've met. I work closely with both major labs in N Cal. I've seen it all. The problem isn't that I just haven't been to the right dispensaries. I understand the market as good as anyone that is out there.

I know of several that only carry organic and veganic meds. No solvent wax either.

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You must be from Mendo. CCA in Hopland and that other dispensary in Ukiah off industrial ran by that old hippie couple are the only dispensaries I know of that fit that description. Love both of them btw. Some of my favorites in the state. But both do carry solvent extracts, they just carry shatter instead of wax which is just a different form of the same thing.

you would be surprised how many more people are switching to organics everyday..

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I would be surprised because it's not true in most of the state. Santa Rosa seems to be the line where people care about organics. Above Santa Rosa everyone prefers organics, south of Santa Rosa all the way to San Diego it's 99% hydro on every top shelf.

theres plenty of studies and articles that show how bad chem nutrients are for cannabis and food . it is what is

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I don't think that's true. I'd like to see some proof.