Clones Vs Seeds

BlandMeow

BlandMeow

Well-Known Member
lusidghost said:
I try to resist knocking people's preferences and methods too much. At the end of the day we're all just trying to grow what makes us happy. Seeds are awesome. Clones are awesome. I've sent many of each into the light and most of them did me proud.
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Ok, but be honest. If 20 years from now, you can purchase a pack of seeds that would be the exact replica of your favorite strain, you wouldn't care about clones.

I had a great variety of onion crop last year, but I'm not out keeping onion clones since I can just pop seeds of the exact plant!
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
BlandMeow said:
Ok, but be honest. If 20 years from now, you can purchase a pack of seeds that would be the exact replica of your favorite strain, you wouldn't care about clones.

I had a great variety of onion crop last year, but I'm not out keeping onion clones since I can just pop seeds of the exact plant!
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Honestly, no. I like running clones. Seedlings are pain. If I were exclusively running seeds I would prefer them to be as stable as possible though.
 
Budget Buds

Budget Buds

Well-Known Member
That's outrageous for a clone, no matter what strain it is. I just pheno hunt my own strains now, I know what it is, how it was grown and whether or not it has some disease that is going to fuck up your grow room...... Plus it's hella fun and rewarding to do your own work :)
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
BlandMeow said:
I ran a 13 pack of Second Generation Key Lime Chem. Of the females that came from it, 4 were pretty close indica heavy but still had subtle differences, while the 5th was totally different with more sativa traits.

That's no where close to what you get from modern vegetable gardening. If you are a competent gardener, you'll reach close to the same results as the seed catalog. No variation in branch spacing, fruit size, ripening, etc.
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That's because it takes time to properly breed and get consistency. That isn't being done by most of the cannabis seed producers. I won't even call them breeders because breeding takes time. Anyone can pollinate a female with male pollen that doesn't make them an actual breeder.

A good amount of breeding programs for vegetables are done in conjunction with the agricultural departments of major universities. They have the resources and time for a proper breeding program.

I grow a Siletz Tomato every year. It was released by a Dr James R Baggett at Oregon State University in 1994. It grows the same today as when it was released from seed in 1994 because it was bred properly. It wasn't just a pollen chuck and given a name. The Cosmic Crisp apple took 20 years to develop at the University of Washington. These guys coming out with this strain and that strain every few months are not breeders.

I'm growing some F7's of something I've been working on for 3 years. I got over 90% uniformity from seeds last run. I'm doing one more run and then I'm going to consider it stable enough to consider an IBL. Nobody is spending 3 years these days which is why there is so much variation from many of these seed outfits.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
That's because it takes time to properly breed and get consistency. That isn't being done by most of the cannabis seed producers. I won't even call them breeders because breeding takes time. Anyone can pollinate a female with male pollen that doesn't make them aan actual breeder.

A good amount of breeding programs for vegetables are done in conjunction with the agricultural departments of major universities. They have the resources and time for a proper breeding program.

I grow a Siletz Tomato every year. It was released by a Dr James R Baggett at Oregon State University in 1994. It grows the same today as when it was released from seed in 1994 because it was bred properly. It wasn't just a pollen chuck and given a name. The Cosmic Crisp apple took 20 years to develop at the University of Washington. These guys coming out with this strain and that strain every few months are not breeders.

I'm growing some F7's of something I've been working on for 3 years. I got over 90% uniformity from seeds last run. I'm doing one more run and then I'm going to consider it stable enough to consider an IBL. Nobody is spending 3 years these days which is why there is so much variation from many of these seed outfits.
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What's scaring me a bit is the bud structures im seeing as an outcome of the unfettered crossing of stuff
 
BlandMeow

BlandMeow

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
That's because it takes time to properly breed and get consistency. That isn't being done by most of the cannabis seed producers. I won't even call them breeders because breeding takes time. Anyone can pollinate a female with male pollen that doesn't make them aan actual breeder.

A good amount of breeding programs for vegetables are done in conjunction with the agricultural departments of major universities. They have the resources and time for a proper breeding program.

I grow a Siletz Tomato every year. It was released by a Dr James R Baggett at Oregon State University in 1994. It grows the same today as when it was released from seed in 1994 because it was bred properly. It wasn't just a pollen chuck and given a name. The Cosmic Crisp apple took 20 years to develop at the University of Washington. These guys coming out with this strain and that strain every few months are not breeders.

I'm growing some F7's of something I've been working on for 3 years. I got over 90% uniformity from seeds last run. I'm doing one more run and then I'm going to consider it stable enough to consider an IBL. Nobody is spending 3 years these days which is why there is so much variation from many of these seed outfits.
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To someone else's point, I guess that variation has its place to create new flavors and expressions. Still, it isn't that far off (5-10 years) before we can have some stable genetics to choose from and rely on.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
What's scaring me a bit is the bud structures im seeing as an outcome of the unfettered crossing of stuff
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I see some nasty looking bud structure from many of the autos people post pictures of and I don't understand why they grow them. High leaf to calyx ratio seems pretty common.

BlandMeow said:
To someone else's point, I guess that variation has its place to create new flavors and expressions. Still, it isn't that far off (5-10 years) before we can have some stable genetics to choose from and rely on.
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If cannabis wasn't illegal at the federal level I'm sure there would be breeding programs producing stable strains that grow true from seed. There are a few breeders out there that take the time. ACE offerings are extremely stable compared to others out there which is why I grow a bunch of their stuff and use it for my own projects.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
dftrewx said:
I have run seeds very similar to one another and some quite different. I think the main difference is in the proliferation of hybrid strains. The landrace I have run were usually very consistent, while hybrids seem to show more differences in pheno’s.
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Exactly. Welcome to RIU man.
 
ComputerSaysNo

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Nobody is spending 3 years these days which is why there is so much variation from many of these seed outfits.
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There are some outfits that do it, for example Ace Seeds; they're also very transparent about it. Furthermore they sell actual landrace seeds. Pretty special company if you ask me.
I've ordered from them with no issues.

And of course there are some widely available stabilized breeds (such as Skunk #1 and White Widow).

I guess a lot of breeders do not even want their seeds to be stable, because that way they're the only ones who can sell a certain F1 hybrid at a premium (hype, of course, helps a lot in these cases).
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
ComputerSaysNo said:
There are some outfits that do it, for example Ace Seeds; they're also very transparent about it. Furthermore they sell actual landrace seeds. Pretty special company if you ask me.
I've ordered from them with no issues.

And of course there are some widely available stabilized breeds (such as Skunk #1 and White Widow).

I guess a lot of breeders do not even want their seeds to be stable, because that way they're the only ones who can sell a certain F1 hybrid at a premium (hype, of course, helps a lot in these cases).
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Yes I'm a big fan of ACE. I mentioned them in my last post #94 in this thread.

Love the ACE genetics. One of the few outfits doing actual breeding and not just chucking pollen like all the so called "Elite" breeders here in the States. I'd have everything the have if they shipped to the USA. I've had to get everything through European seed banks that do ship here but the selection is usually limited or they're sold out of most of their stuff. I'm really disappointed I can't get some of the more recent landraces they've started carrying. I haven't been able to find a seed bank that carries most of their stuff and ships to the United States. I have a bunch of stuff from The Real Seed Company as well.


 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
I’d hop on that kush mints for hundred bucks lol. If it’s a star pheno and not just a said bought bean and a simple clone. The point of buying a clone is to COMPLETELY eliminate the hunt for a good pheno. So yes. If I can pay 2-300 bucks for a cut that’s guaranteed to be what I’m looking for. I’d bite. That one clone can start your entire stock years to come IF that what you want. Then that few hundred bucks is completely forgotten
 
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