Club T5

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
All I'm trying to say is that you clearly let your arrogance get the better of you when you were a kid.

You're making a really bad assumption that I have bad or misleading numbers, but the reality is that you will not tell me which lamp you were planning on buying because it would mean me identifying the particular leds used and the operating parameters and ultimately calculating the efficiency and total quantum efficacy. You claim to already understand these nuances, but nothing you say suggests that's true.

What LEDs are being used on the lamp you have in mind? What bin are they? What current are they running at? What is the case temperature of the leds after operating for a few hours? All of these factors have a large effect on efficiency.

Don't you see how keeping those factors a mystery is misleading and the complete opposite of what's expected in the scientific method? (accurate description of apparatus)? So when you finally do this "experiment", you will easily be able to conclude that "T5 performs equal to or better than LED". Pay no attention to the fact that the specs of the lamp you chose sucks balls.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
All I'm trying to say is that you clearly let your arrogance get the better of you when you were a kid.

You're making a really bad assumption that I have bad or misleading numbers, but the reality is that you will not tell me which lamp you were planning on buying because it would mean me identifying the particular leds used and the operating parameters and ultimately calculating the efficiency and total quantum efficacy. You claim to already understand these nuances, but nothing you say suggests that's true.

What LEDs are being used on the lamp you have in mind? What bin are they? What current are they running at? What is the case temperature of the leds after operating for a few hours? All of these factors have a large effect on efficiency.

Don't you see how keeping those factors a mystery is misleading and the complete opposite of what's expected in the scientific method? (accurate description of apparatus)? So when you finally do this "experiment", you will easily be able to conclude that "T5 performs equal to or better than LED". Pay no attention to the fact that the specs of the lamp you chose suck balls.
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Once again clueless, I had no arrogance as a kid LOL I hated what those school fools did to me and I rebelled, it wasn't arrogance.

As to not tellin you, well maybe, perhaps I wanna start a light company and sell lights?

maybe I ignore the numbers because I think out side the box and don't like limitations?

maybe I fully comprehend that plants don't understand your numbers?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I posted here a long time ago, using a variety of aquarium bulbs in my 8 bulb Bad Boy. Last grow I replaced 6 cfls with Transcend Lighting hot5 LEDs. This grow I am using 4white (~ 5000k) + 4 red during flower. They work great (see pics) BUT, they ar $70= $560. And although they will pay for themselves as they are barely used after 4 grows- eliminating biannual replacement, BUT, Amare Technologies just introduce a Pro 3 CoB hybrid that is 3ft long, 300w and said to cover a 2 x 4 space @ $795. although cfl tubes start out at 54w keep in mind literally half of that wattage is reflected (assuming your fixture has reflectors), which drastically cuts into its umole output at the canopy . I don't think Amare has a product page for it yet, but they might send you a picture. I can't wait to get one and do a side by side. I am using the same light but square now. Pretty awesome

The last pic is one plant grown under the hot5 with 3 white 3 red + 2 aquarium bulbs
 

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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
How many watts were you using? I believe we were both growing in a 4v2. I don't think it's fair to compare my 240W to your ??? W? I have other results I don't have pictures of from my 193W version of the same grow and got 310g in a 4'x2'. To me, it's a ridiculous comparison.
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I'll run four bulbs. That would be little over 200 watts.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Just thought I's post a couple pics of how the TL led tubes are fairing so far. Probably 3 weeks left. They have ~ 80% of the bulk compared to the plants under my Amare Technologies SE 250, but they may just take longer to fill out. The buds look great, pistils are plentiful and very fluffy.

First 2 pics are under the TLs, Pics 2 - 4 under the SE 250
 

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mauricem00

mauricem00

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RM3 said:
because your numbers mean nothing to me, I never use numbers, I use plant response as my only indicator.

In 3rd grade I was reading and understanding college literature books. In 4th grade they tested me and said I had an IQ of 169. In 8th grade I completed ALL of my high school math courses with an A average. Enrolling in 9th grade I asked if I could do it with all my high school courses, they said no I quit and took the GED test missed 3 questions without studying. At 19 I joined the AirForce took the ASVAB test and not only did I finish it with hours to spare but only missed 2 questions. Got hauled into a bird colonels office and offered any job I wanted 8) Never went to school for electronics, all self taught and the state actually awarded me a college degree based on experience after I passed a single test. When I had my shop in KC, the NFL brought me their cameras, as I was the only guy in KC that could fix em.

Say what you like, hell think what you like but as I already said you are truly clueless
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many years ago a gardener at the university told me " I don't understand all these fancy theories. I have to let my plants tell me what they want" seems he was smarter than most of the professors at the university. they grew plants on chalk boards. he grew them in soil.:):):). don't know why the led crowd claims T5s need to be replaced every 9 month. I use commercial bulbs and after 2 years my light meter shows a drop in output of less than 5%. with veg and flowering my 6500k average 15 hours a day 365 days a year.my flora suns are only on during flowering so average only 2200 hours a year and get replaced every 3 years.
 
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PetFlora

PetFlora

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mauricem00 said:
many years ago a gardener at the university told me " I don't understand all these fancy theories. I have to let my plants tell me what they want" seems he was smarter than most of the professors at the university. they grew plants on chalk boards. he grew them in soil.:):):). don't know why the led crowd claims T5s need to be replaced every 9 month. I use commercial bulbs and after 2 years my light meter shows a drop in output of less than 5%. with veg and flowering my 6500k average 15 hours a day 365 days a year.my flora suns are only on during flowering so average only 2200 hours a year and get replaced every 3 years.
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when you understand that 6500 is only good fro early veg, and that the warmer the spectrums (5000, 4500, 3000, ...) are not efficient and have a much lower life span

Also 6500 makes for extremely short plants, which is fine for lettuce, but not for cannabis
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
when you understand that 6500 is only good fro early veg, and that the warmer the spectrums (5000, 4500, 3000, ...) are not efficient and have a much lower life span

Also 6500 makes for extremely short plants, which is fine for lettuce, but not for cannabis
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I don't know about that. my plants grow fine all the way to harvest with T5s.I simply add 3000ks or floral suns during flowering to provide more red light and intensity. I tried a DIY LED using vero 18s 4000k ran at 700 ma and my T5s outperformed them.I understand that you like LEDs and were a representative for BML at one time but florescent are still the most popular light with indoor garden centers and come in a close second to HIDs for greenhouses and indoor growers.cheap leds are junk and high quality leds are way too expensive for small PU MMJ growers who make no profit from their grows.there is no one best grow light. one size does not fit all. we use what works best in our situation.I am converting my house lights to leds. some of these bulbs produce 100-110LPW.thinking of trying a couple for side lighting. they are getting cheap enough and seem to hold up well as house lighting http://www.ebay.com/itm/351405859538?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=620500954247&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
I don't know about that. my plants grow fine all the way to harvest with T5s.I simply add 3000ks or floral suns during flowering to provide more red light and intensity. I tried a DIY LED using vero 18s 4000k ran at 700 ma and my T5s outperformed them.I understand that you like LEDs and were a representative for BML at one time but florescent are still the most popular light with indoor garden centers and come in a close second to HIDs for greenhouses and indoor growers.cheap leds are junk and high quality leds are way too expensive for small PU MMJ growers who make no profit from their grows.there is no one best grow light. one size does not fit all. we use what works best in our situation.I am converting my house lights to leds. some of these bulbs produce 100-110LPW.thinking of trying a couple for side lighting. they are getting cheap enough and seem to hold up well as house lighting http://www.ebay.com/itm/351405859538?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=620500954247&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
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Please show me where I represented BML

Of course you can't.

Neither do you flower under 6500s by themselves

Get your facts straight
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Why be like that? I use agromax bulbs at $9 a piece and $20 for the UV.

Everyone has a reason to grow the way they do. As long as the person is happy what difference does it make?

T5 has one pro, mixed spectrum. It produces a high quality product.

For a personal grow it is perfect for growing fire weed.

I have pics in this thread and my thread of three foot plants. Large hard colas. 2-3 ounces a piece. Maybe 4 oz on the biggest one. So 6-10 ounces in 90 days.

Plenty enough for personal use.
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I pay $46 for 8 6500k F54T5HO bulbs and $11 each for F54T5HO flora suns and my bulbs last me 2 years. super silver haze 4 weeks from seed 6500k 4 bulb T5.$79 for fixture and bulbs
 

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mauricem00

mauricem00

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whitebb2727 said:
That is an old stat. T5 efficiency has risen to. I read an article the other day that stated that t5 is on par with single ended hid. Pretty close to it.

Negligible difference. Plus an hid fades faster than t5 and will lose up to 50%.

A t5 will lose 10% max.
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my 4 bulb fixture produces 64,2 watts of radiant power. it draws 236 watts at cold start up dropping to 203 watts after 10 minute warm up period using a plusrite commercial ballast ( ballast factor 1.0). thats 31.6% efficiency. better than a 150 watt HPS or 250 watt MH. it also beats the 3 watt bridgelux LEDs I've tested.after 2 years of continuous use averaging 15 hours a day (veg/flower) my light meter shows a 5% drop in output which agrees with the manufacturers L95 rating . I do not use bulbs from the hydro shop. I use commercial bulbs from plusrite or global. these seed hit soil 4 weeks ago.
 

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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

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mauricem00 said:
my 4 bulb fixture produces 64,2 watts of radiant power. it draws 236 watts at cold start up dropping to 203 watts after 10 minute warm up period using a plusrite commercial ballast ( ballast factor 1.0). thats 31.6% efficiency. better than a 150 watt HPS or 250 watt MH. it also beats the 3 watt bridgelux LEDs I've tested.after 2 years of continuous use averaging 15 hours a day (veg/flower) my light meter shows a 5% drop in output which agrees with the manufacturers L95 rating . I do not use bulbs from the hydro shop. I use commercial bulbs from plusrite or global. these seed hit soil 4 weeks ago.
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Right on. I knew that t5 efficiency had gone up.
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
Once again clueless, I had no arrogance as a kid LOL I hated what those school fools did to me and I rebelled, it wasn't arrogance.

As to not tellin you, well maybe, perhaps I wanna start a light company and sell lights?

maybe I ignore the numbers because I think out side the box and don't like limitations?

maybe I fully comprehend that plants don't understand your numbers?
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theory may be a good starting point but any engineer can tell you that they usually don't work in the real world without a lot of "tweaking". you are smarter than me. I only tested 165 but I understand what you went thru
 
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mauricem00

mauricem00

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whitebb2727 said:
Right on. I knew that t5 efficiency had gone up.
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standard T5s (not T5HOs) test even higher with a good commercial ballast and tubes.and these numbers come from test i've actually run. not some chalk board theory.2G11CFLs look pretty good too if you only have room for a 2 foot fixture and these lights are cheaper and easier to build than LEDs.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
my 4 bulb fixture produces 64,2 watts of radiant power. it draws 236 watts at cold start up dropping to 203 watts after 10 minute warm up period using a plusrite commercial ballast ( ballast factor 1.0). thats 31.6% efficiency. better than a 150 watt HPS or 250 watt MH. it also beats the 3 watt bridgelux LEDs I've tested.after 2 years of continuous use averaging 15 hours a day (veg/flower) my light meter shows a 5% drop in output which agrees with the manufacturers L95 rating . I do not use bulbs from the hydro shop. I use commercial bulbs from plusrite or global. these seed hit soil 4 weeks ago.
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How did you come up with 64.2W of radiant power? Did you measure this using an integrating sphere? (it doesn't sound like it)

It sounds to me like you made up the number 64.2W and then used it to calculate an efficiency of 31.6%.

The theory you hate so much says ~25%. Are you sure you used an integrating sphere to measure radiant power?

mauricem00 said:
I only tested 165
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really....? You too? Did you also drop out of high school, or was your score not high enough to warrant that? :wall:
 
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C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Right on. I knew that t5 efficiency had gone up.
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You're not even going to question where those numbers came from? Someone just gives you a bigger number and since it's what you want to hear, you automatically believe it? I would love to see the results from the integrating sphere tests where he figured out his fixture produces 64.2W radiant power. I get the feeling it was done by using the PAR meter to make a grid, which won't find radiant power produced.

It sounds like he's measuring total radiant output with ...

mauricem00 said:
my light meter
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... which doesn't measure total radiant power.
 
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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
You're not even going to question where those numbers came from? Someone just gives you a bigger number and since it's what you want to hear, you automatically believe it? I would love to see the results from the integrating sphere tests where he figured out his fixture produces 64.2W radiant power. I get the feeling it was done by using the PAR meter to make a grid, which won't find radiant power produced.

It sounds like he's measuring total radiant output with ...



... which doesn't measure total radiant power.
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IG read many articles that state that newer t5 are on par with hid so his numbers sound about right.

Fuck off. Go somewhere else.
 
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