Coco Growers Unite!

Snow Crash · Apr 23, 2011

rfun said:
Reason I ask is cuz I wanna use the Bushmaster. But it specifically says on the bottle not to use in straight Coco. I was just wondering if anyone had experimented or knows why it cant be used in Coco. I am using Gravity and Snow Storm for the first time cant tell yet but I will be chopping next week so we will see. But I really wanna use the Bushmaster cuz I know it works good seen someone use it in Hydroton. Any advice would be appreciated!

I am not certain but I believe it is due to the high CEC of the media. You'd be best served directing an email straight to Emerald Triangle's CS department.

From what I have read and heard about Bushmaster it works best as a foliar spray and applied with copious amounts of Kelp extracts. In this regard I don't think it will matter what media you are in because the product is applied directly to the leaves.

rfun · Apr 23, 2011

Snow Crash said:
I am not certain but I believe it is due to the high CEC of the media. You'd be best served directing an email straight to Emerald Triangle's CS department.

From what I have read and heard about Bushmaster it works best as a foliar spray and applied with copious amounts of Kelp extracts. In this regard I don't think it will matter what media you are in because the product is applied directly to the leaves.

Thanks for your response. I will be sending them an email.

Scroggsy · Apr 24, 2011

Hi all, just having my first problems 3.5 weeks into flower. Ive got big dark brown bronzey crispy patches on the lower leaves, the older leaves and big fan leaves are also dark green and curling down. The newer growth has yellow at the very tips of leaves.

I am feeding 7.0ml per gallon (each) A and B at ph5.8 with 2ml per gallon of Pk13/14 and 2ml per gallon of CalMag and 5.5ml per gallon of cannazym. I have just been doing this 7ml (each) the last week coming down from 10ml (each) per gallon on the coco A and B.

Temps are all in check etc every other factor is fine, but I have noticed that the coco has been drying out between watering a fair bit over the past week so Im pretty sure that the EC/PH is spiking. I am watering once a day at first lights on, but sometimes over the last few days have also watered just before lights out to try and flush the medium a bit but im guessing I need to take more drastic action. Any suggestions?

QUESTION what would be a good strength solution to feed with over the next few days? should I go down to 3.5ml per gallon A and B? should I also drop the calmag and PK13/14 down?

****SNOW CRASH PLEASE HELP ME****

Thanks. Scroggsy.

Snow Crash · Apr 24, 2011

Scroggsy said:
Hi all, just having my first problems 3.5 weeks into flower. Ive got big dark brown bronzey crispy patches on the lower leaves, the older leaves and big fan leaves are also dark green and curling down. The newer growth has yellow at the very tips of leaves.

I am feeding 7.0ml per gallon (each) A and B at ph5.8 with 2ml per gallon of Pk13/14 and 2ml per gallon of CalMag and 5.5ml per gallon of cannazym. I have just been doing this 7ml (each) the last week coming down from 10ml (each) per gallon on the coco A and B.

Temps are all in check etc every other factor is fine, but I have noticed that the coco has been drying out between watering a fair bit over the past week so Im pretty sure that the EC/PH is spiking. I am watering once a day at first lights on, but sometimes over the last few days have also watered just before lights out to try and flush the medium a bit but im guessing I need to take more drastic action. Any suggestions?

QUESTION what would be a good strength solution to feed with over the next few days? should I go down to 3.5ml per gallon A and B? should I also drop the calmag and PK13/14 down?

****SNOW CRASH PLEASE HELP ME****

Thanks. Scroggsy.

Sure dude.

Coco solution pH range: 5.5 to 6.2

That's the first thing to dial in. Coco is pretty good about self-buffering but you want to be dialed in at around 5.8pH for the entire grow. Some growers like to run a little higher, around 6.0pH or so, to assist in phosphorus availability. Get your pH to 5.8 for starters.

Secondly, you have what sounds to me to be a salt build up while you're feeding very high level of nutrients.

My suggestion to you is to run more like 3ml of A+B each, 2ml of Cal-Mag, 5ml of Cannazym and skip on the pk 13/14 until you get the nutrients right. Ensure you are getting about 1 gallon of run off for each planter. Water daily. After 3 or 4 days of this you'll have washed out any build up. By that point all you really need to do is increase the Cannazym to more like 7ml until you start flushing.

I've burnt a few plants in coco. I find that when the runoff EC is in excess of 2.5 most plants cannot take it. You're probably in that range. More runoff each time, while providing the right ratio of elements so not to starve the plant, will gradually resolve the issue. Fixing the pH is going to help a lot too.

Scroggsy · Apr 24, 2011

Thanks so much. runoff PH is 6.5 I know this is not accurate enough to tell whats really happening. Im feeding 5.8.

So after 3-4 days of 3ml per gallon I can head back to 7ml per gallon? drop the PK13/14 till week six?

Thanks. Scroggsy.

Snow Crash · Apr 24, 2011

Scroggsy said:
Thanks so much. runoff PH is 6.5 I know this is not accurate enough to tell whats really happening. Im feeding 5.8.

So after 3-4 days of 3ml per gallon I can head back to 7ml per gallon? drop the PK13/14 till week six?

Thanks. Scroggsy.

Sorry about the pH thing. I was really high earlier and misread the 7.0ml as 7.0pH.

I think you should definitely cut the PK 13/14 out until week 6, if at all.

3ml of A and 3ml of B and 2ml of Cal-Mag Plus will give you about a .6ec (300ppm) plus your starting level. The 5ml of Cannazym isn't going to change things much, maybe another .1ec (50ppm).

This brings you to a .7ec plus your tap water (probably about .25ec to .4ec) or somewhere around a 1.0ec (500ppm).

This solution you can use to rinse the media without throwing off your ratios. At this stage you don't need to be pushing the PK too hard. A balanced ratio is what I use through weeks 3 and 4, something like a 2-2-3.

After 4 waterings I think the right levels for you are probably around 6-7ml of A+B, 6-7ml of CannaZym, and 2-3ml of Cal-Mag Plus. If you decide to use the PK 13/14 around day 40 then cut the A+B and Cannazym in half and use the PK 13/14 at 3-4ml per gallon.

Watch your runoff for a while. Lower levels of nutrients and more runoff for a little bit will help out a lot.

DankBudzzz · Apr 24, 2011

Still having troubles with some plants and you seem to be giving some great advice as to what to do snowcrash...

My runoff was 7.0 last time I checked adn I'm only watering every 3 days....I ph adjust to 5.9 or 6.0 before feeding but my first two runoffs were 7.0 and 6.5.

The leaves are curlign and yellow on a few of them, and some of the others have come back and are looking a little more healthy.

Last picture is pre transplant to coco, they are in pro mix in the dixie cups.

littlegrower2004 · Apr 24, 2011

DankBudzzz said:
Still having troubles with some plants and you seem to be giving some great advice as to what to do snowcrash...

My runoff was 7.0 last time I checked adn I'm only watering every 3 days....I ph adjust to 5.9 or 6.0 before feeding but my first two runoffs were 7.0 and 6.5.

The leaves are curlign and yellow on a few of them, and some of the others have come back and are looking a little more healthy.

Last picture is pre transplant to coco, they are in pro mix in the dixie cups.

im no pro coco user but i would possibly suggest feeding them daily with a low nute regiment to ensure they are breathing and getting the needed nutes. those pots are a bit large from the dixie cups meaning a lot of water is being wasted to the surrounding material that has no roots yet. what was your root system like when you transplanted? did you knock off the promix to ensure that its not causing any problems with the coco? whats your nutes?

DankBudzzz · Apr 24, 2011

No I didn't knock any promix off, I loosened the roots ball slightly and transplanted....I'm new to coco and I figured I'd do more damage doing that....

DankBudzzz · Apr 24, 2011

1000watt HPS
I fed 5ml floramicro, 2.5 ml cal mag about 3 days ago, ph'd to 5.9 and allowed a little runnoff which came out at 7.0.

I also have Iguana juice and superthrive and neem oil which I actually have never used because I test sprayed one palnt and it died last grow... the micro has no phosphorous so I dunno if that would cause a problem....

Snow Crash · Apr 24, 2011

DankBudzzz said:
Still having troubles with some plants and you seem to be giving some great advice as to what to do snowcrash...

My runoff was 7.0 last time I checked adn I'm only watering every 3 days....I ph adjust to 5.9 or 6.0 before feeding but my first two runoffs were 7.0 and 6.5.

The leaves are curlign and yellow on a few of them, and some of the others have come back and are looking a little more healthy.

Last picture is pre transplant to coco, they are in pro mix in the dixie cups.

I can't tell you what you're doing wrong with so little information. Clearly, something is amiss. Be it your coco nutrients, watering habits, drainage, coco quality, etc, etc.

My suggestion to you is to get back to basics with coco. 5.8pH, running about 350ppm right now. Coco specific nutrients with a good strong calcium presence, excessive amounts of runoff, good temp and humidity, watering when required... I've never had problems in coco when doing it "right" so just touch back on how things should be, what you're doing, and then go from there.

This site needs its own coco forum containing a definitive tutorial. For the time being just google "AskEds Coco Guide" it's on Grasscity and is more or less accurate (aside from some of the amending advice).

DankBudzzz · Apr 24, 2011

Per gallon of water. Also, I noticed that the top few inches of coco dries very qucik and the bottom of the pot where theres no roots yet stays soaked....Im afraid mayeb the roots aren't aerated enough which is why I don't want to water everyday because I dunno if I'm overwatering as it is....

DankBudzzz · Apr 24, 2011

Ok.

They are 29 days old....

I've only fed twice, this was there first real feeding at 5ml floramico and 2.5 ml cal mag. I used one gallon to water 8 plants and got about a hlaf cup of run off per plant.
I'm using a 1000 watt hps and temps are 20 celcius on and 14 celcius lights off.
I'm running 20/4 light schedule.

I ph my water / nutes to 5.9 but am getting a run off on average of 6.5-7.0

I water about evey three days and sometimes find myself giving little water at random times to keep the top soil moist as it dries quick and the bottom soil doesn't seem to....

They looked bigger, healthier and greener over a week ago before transplant.

The rootballs are still encased in promix.

I really need help on ratios I need to be feeding with my nutrients and flushing if needed

Snow Crash · Apr 24, 2011

DankBudzzz said:
1000watt HPS
I fed 5ml floramicro, 2.5 ml cal mag about 3 days ago, ph'd to 5.9 and allowed a little runnoff which came out at 7.0.

I also have Iguana juice and superthrive and neem oil which I actually have never used because I test sprayed one palnt and it died last grow... the micro has no phosphorous so I dunno if that would cause a problem....

I am getting the impression you have yet to obtain any knowledge about Coco and what makes it specifically different from other methods. Cal-Mag and FloraMicro are practically the same thing.

Coco requires all the elements, including phosphorus, an element which is crucial for healthy root development. You need to get on the right program here. That's the only issue.

My suggestion to you to save money and heartache is to pick up the CNS 17 Coco/Soil system from Botanicare. About $10 a quart for each of the 3 bottles you'll need, $30 total. Technically, you don't even need the Grow if you supplement the CNS 17 Bloom with a little Cal-Mag Plus, so you could do it for $20.

CNS 17 Grow for Vegetative: 3-1-2 with 3.6% calcium and 0.5% magnesium
CNS 17 Bloom for Early flower: 2-2-3 with 2.5% calcium and 0.5% magnesium
CNS 17 Ripe for Late flower: 1-5-4 with 1.25% calcium and 0.5% magnesium

This is a "one bottle at a time" system that requires very little supplementation and produces fantastic results for the price. Run it at about 2/3rd strength and consider your plant about 2 weeks old when it comes to their chart.

Also, coco runoff pH is useless information. Only concern yourself with what goes in. It should always be at 5.8pH until you get the hang of it.

littlegrower2004 · Apr 24, 2011

DankBudzzz said:
1000watt HPS
I fed 5ml floramicro, 2.5 ml cal mag about 3 days ago, ph'd to 5.9 and allowed a little runnoff which came out at 7.0.

I also have Iguana juice and superthrive and neem oil which I actually have never used because I test sprayed one palnt and it died last grow... the micro has no phosphorous so I dunno if that would cause a problem....

well promix requires different attention that coco thats why i brought that up so i still cant rule that out as part of the problem. i use flora micro as well and know that shouldnt be the problem. if you can get your hands on more of a veg formula like flora grow than that might help up the NPK ratios, in combination with the micro. superthrive is a hormone and vitamin thing which doesnt seem to be the problem. you can try watering daily as i mentioned with your micro and leave out the cal mag for now since it seems to be more of a macro nutrient problem. you cant overwater coco so dont worry about that.

DankBudzzz · Apr 25, 2011

I had the three part GH system and I only have micro left as the other to spilled completely one day...I also have Iguana Juice which is 4-3-6, The micro is 5-0-1

I absolutely can't afford to buy anything else right now, so If there is a way I can use what I have that'd be great.....I was thinking just feeding a few mls of iguana juice per feeding to supllement the phorphorous...

Also, Is it true I should be waterign every day in coco?

DankBudzzz · Apr 25, 2011

I water with cal mag every watering because I known coco is a cation exchange medium and I heard rumours that lack of cal mag could lead to the coco sucking out nutrients from your roots and plants.

Snow Crash · Apr 25, 2011

You need to be using a complete fertilizer every time. Something that includes all of NPK. If the iguana juice is all you have and you cannot afford a $10 bottle of CNS 17 Bloom then I don't think you have much of an option here.

Coco is an inert, hydroponic, medium. You cannot give it just Nitrogen, Calcium, and Magnesium and expect the cation exchange to be in balance. You are ignoring many elements your plants need for growth.

You should not be watering your coco daily. I find that once the root system fills the entire planter then you can begin daily waterings. Until then it is better to water when required and treat the coco a bit more like soil. Right now, you don't need to be worrying about water, you need to get the food thing right.

I am watering my 2 foot tall flowering plants daily in a 70% coco mix daily now, but it took me probably close to 6 weeks to reach that stage even with aeration material in the coco.

You need to read a coco tutorial or you are going to kill your plant.

DankBudzzz · Apr 25, 2011

Ok thanks, I fed again today, last feeding was 3 days ago. I did manage to find find about 100 mls of flora grow, so I can use that if need be.

But I fed one gallon of R/O water ph'd to 5.8-5.9

5ml Flora micro (5-0-1)
3 ml Iguana juice (4-3-6)
1 drop of Superthrive

Run off has dropped to 6.0-6.3 on average.

The bigger ones that weren't stunted are starting to explode, The biggest two grew more since the last feeding then they have in the past two weeks...

Should I be worried with combining the non organic Micro with the organic iguana juice bloom? Also, will they be getting to much nitrogen??

Wolverine97 · Apr 25, 2011

Snow Crash said:
You need to be using a complete fertilizer every time. Something that includes all of NPK. If the iguana juice is all you have and you cannot afford a $10 bottle of CNS 17 Bloom then I don't think you have much of an option here.

Coco is an inert, hydroponic, medium. You cannot give it just Nitrogen, Calcium, and Magnesium and expect the cation exchange to be in balance. You are ignoring many elements your plants need for growth.

You should not be watering your coco daily. I find that once the root system fills the entire planter then you can begin daily waterings. Until then it is better to water when required and treat the coco a bit more like soil. Right now, you don't need to be worrying about water, you need to get the food thing right.

I am watering my 2 foot tall flowering plants daily in a 70% coco mix daily now, but it took me probably close to 6 weeks to reach that stage even with aeration material in the coco.

You need to read a coco tutorial or you are going to kill your plant.

Listen to the man, he knows his coco.

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