defoliation question..... anyone familiar with it?

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
keebo3000 said:
" A wise man never argues with fools , because people from a distance can't tell who is who".
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Yeah, and a wise man is always throwing pearls before swine around this dysfunctional place. Get off your Happy Christmas ass and do a search. You may begin with another noob gimmick - "lollipopping".

Mod, how about removing this thread to the Noob section.
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
crazyhazey said:
dude you really didnt just try to some shit from youtube did you? hahaha oh my god im not gonna watch it but you can do some research and figure out leaves also store energy im not gonna sit here and argue about it.
dont just go to youtube for your knowledge, if you look up how to make BHO on there youll probably make really bad shit, but thats youtube for ya. so read a book, grab a kindle, ah who fuckin knows how people can learn valid facts anymore, half the internets bullshit sometimes too so im not blaming you for your ignorance.
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not gonna watch it? then i guess we have nothing else to discuss. have a great day!! ..... and hey I really appreciate you not blaming me for my ignorance, becuase im always going onto thread ands thrashing ideas I dont agree with... i mean what the point of new ideas anyway? im with you. BAH HUMBUG!!! lol
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
I've tried both ways... I am still up in the air about it all... I've also tried bending and folding individual leaves.... I think it is VERY strain dependant. I believe that this method works best indoors with a mostly Indica variety, that has heavy branching, in that, the branches themselves seem to be seperate plants. (Know what I mean?)

On one occassion in which I stripped the leaves, the plants suffered incredible stretching, because they were getting no light from the missing leaves, so they were still looking for light and the entire grow was filled with individual buds instead of main cola's, however, the yield was incredible.

Another occassion, I did the same thing, the yield came out "ok"...

So, in the end, it seems that I get a more consistent yield out of "leaving them alone technique", rather than de-foliating, however, that one yield in which I got a lb and a half, out of 2 plants and a single 600 watt light, was really sweet.
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Yeah, and a wise man is always throwing pearls before swine around this dysfunctional place. Get off your Happy Christmas ass and do a search. You may begin with another noob gimmick - "lollipopping".

Mod, how about removing this thread to the Noob section.
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just wondering how this thread is bothering you. i mean you must be interested because this is the second time you've visited. don't get me wrong, happy to have you but if you are so set against this why not( just a thought) go to the other hundreds of posts thats should be here (by your way of thinking) or are you just lonely and just need a friend? you know what uncle buck? i'll be your friend...... nobody else understands you huh, big guy? ....well i do, this is just a demonstration for attention I see it all the time from my three year old when its bed time and she disagrees so you know what unk? from here on out you and I are best buddies, real pals, you like that kiddo?..... I knew you would.
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
BenFranklin said:
I've tried both ways... I am still up in the air about it all... I've also tried bending and folding individual leaves.... I think it is VERY strain dependant. I believe that this method works best indoors with a mostly Indica variety, that has heavy branching, in that, the branches themselves seem to be seperate plants. (Know what I mean?)

On one occassion in which I stripped the leaves, the plants suffered incredible stretching, because they were getting no light from the missing leaves, so they were still looking for light and the entire grow was filled with individual buds instead of main cola's, however, the yield was incredible.

Another occassion, I did the same thing, the yield came out "ok"...

So, in the end, it seems that I get a more consistent yield out of "leaving them alone technique", rather than de-foliating, however, that one yield in which I got a lb and a half, out of 2 plants and a single 600 watt light, was really sweet.
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thank for your well thought out and articulate comment, thats what i've been waiting for someone with experience in the subject.
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
keebo... Everytime I think about that particular grow, I sit here and wonder if I would have gotten more out of those two plants if I had left them alone... I really just don't know. I've never gotten that much out of any other grow, they could have been exceptional hybrids, out of the seeds I breed..

One theory is that leaving the leaves on, the plant grows and matures more rapidly?

Taking them off slows growth and thereby lengthening time to maturity, people think yields are smaller, however, I believe they are smaller because the people growing are not making an exception to the lengthening of their flowering maturity time. SO people are saying to themselves 'the packet says they are done in 60 days" so they cut them in 60 days... There by reducing yield by not giving enough time for recovery.

If you able to slow up the maturity, the plant is able to produce more bud, it gives time for the buds themselves to get fatter, the leaves IN the buds will be able to feed the plant enough of the needed energy to keep it alive, until the new fan leaves can be produced.

However, you're then making the plant compete for energy to produce leaf and bud..... So.. in the end, it's a constant toss up as to if this is a good idea or not as you can now see the obvious conflict of the plant having to produce both buds and leaf at the end stages of its life.

So... there are so many variables to this method it is hard to know if it's worth it.
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
Think of a bonzai tree.... they take off all of the big leaves... They leave all the major young growth behind, yes, they trim branch tips off, but they also trim larger fan or shade leaves off as well.

Also, a long long time ago, a friend of mine got one of those dadgumb Phototron's, the directions for usage demanded that you cut all leaves bigger than 3 inches. (or bigger than the palm of your hand).
 
FlightSchool

FlightSchool

Active Member
I've defoliated for my current grow, 4 days before flipping to 12/12.

I've heard all the rants against it, But I've also seen the product obtained by not having so much foliage when you're working with a smaller scale grow. I've seen some explosive growth happen just days after defoliating, No stunting, no shock, no issues. Just large amounts of healthy growth both upwards and outwards.
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
You know what I am thinking?

Outdoor growers and their issues with deer.....

Deer don't destroy the plants by eatting the buds... They destroy the plants by eatting off all the leaves.. This issue plagues outdoor growers, who complain that yields were cut in half... or worse. So, the plants do not have enough time to recover before winter time hits.

Indoors, the human is the deer..... but, given the optimum growing conditions of indoor grows, the seemingly bad effects of plucking leaves is not as noticeable, until yield time happens and you're left wondering, "could this have yielded more if I had left it alone".

People also have to remember that marijuana however versatile an organism it is, is not a vine like Pumpkins or cucumbers where you can pick all the side branches off and expect one major whopping 10X the size cola, unless the genetics are there to do this.

I personally believe that all of the BIG GIANT fan leaves service the entire plant over all....(I noticed that when I didn't cut these leaves off, but just folded them under, it blocked them from getting necessary light, and it made the tops stretch. I will never fold the leaves under like that again...)

The secondary leaves(the runners up and down each branch) service the over all health of each individual branch and their individual nodes.
The little leaves that come out on the buds, service the buds themselves.

So, in the end, it reminds me of a song that Herman Munster once sang..... "The hip bones connected to the leg bone, the leg bones connected to the knee bone..." etc etc etc.....
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
All I can think of is Red Foreman from That 70's Show saying to his son Eric.... "If I cut your hand off do you think it will make you grow bigger?"
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
BenFranklin said:
You know what I am thinking?

Outdoor growers and their issues with deer.....

Deer don't destroy the plants by eatting the buds... They destroy the plants by eatting off all the leaves.. This issue plagues outdoor growers, who complain that yields were cut in half... or worse. So, the plants do not have enough time to recover before winter time hits.

Indoors, the human is the deer..... but, given the optimum growing conditions of indoor grows, the seemingly bad effects of plucking leaves is not as noticeable, until yield time happens and you're left wondering, "could this have yielded more if I had left it alone".

People also have to remember that marijuana however versatile an organism it is, is not a vine like Pumpkins or cucumbers where you can pick all the side branches off and expect one major whopping 10X the size cola, unless the genetics are there to do this.

I personally believe that all of the BIG GIANT fan leaves service the entire plant over all....(I noticed that when I didn't cut these leaves off, but just folded them under, it blocked them from getting necessary light, and it made the tops stretch. I will never fold the leaves under like that again...)

The secondary leaves(the runners up and down each branch) service the over all health of each individual branch and their individual nodes.
The little leaves that come out on the buds, service the buds themselves.

So, in the end, it reminds me of a song that Herman Munster once sang..... "The hip bones connected to the leg bone, the leg bones connected to the knee bone..." etc etc etc.....
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i mean these are all cute anecdotes but how do explain the growers, plural , yourself included who got huge yields from defoliating? deers are outdoors, and im sure they arent dipping their teeth into alcohol before they make each cut like i do,... that cantbe sanitary for the buds... im sure that has outdoor growersw pissed as well, but like i said im not looking for validation just other growers with sucess or failure defoliating not speculation
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
keebo.. see how tall and stretched those plants are in the first garden? The buds on the bottom of those plants aren't getting strong enough light, they are well outside of the optimum range for the light supplied, the further away from an HPS you get, the more dramatic the light falls off, it doubles per foot. Depending on wattage used. The plants in the first grow could have been MUCH MUCH larger IMO. I notice lots of stem in between the bud nodes. Instead of growing a lot of bud, it spent time recovering and stretching, growing a lot of stem...


That's the other thing.. Why would you strip off the bottom leaves that are blocking nothing but the bucket?

The plants in the second picture are being grown using a technique called SCROG and are miniature, the buds are scrawny and lacking weight, however that grower may have wanted them to be small, in a stealth grow.... SCROG is an entirely different technique that takes a bit more time and effort. if you notice also in the second grow, the branches have all been bent and crushed, which is also inducing stress and reducing yield.

If cutting off all the leaves makes you feel that you're getting more light to the buds, then by all means, you do what you think is right.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
BenFranklin said:
keebo.. see how tall and stretched those plants are in the first garden? The buds on the bottom of those plants aren't getting strong enough light, they are well outside of the optimum range for the light supplied, the further away from an HPS you get, the more dramatic the light falls off, it doubles per foot. Depending on wattage used. The plants in the first grow could have been MUCH MUCH larger IMO. I notice lots of stem in between the bud nodes. Instead of growing a lot of bud, it spent time recovering and stretching, growing a lot of stem...


That's the other thing.. Why would you strip off the bottom leaves that are blocking nothing but the bucket?

The plants in the second picture are being grown using a technique called SCROG and are miniature, the buds are scrawny and lacking weight, however that grower may have wanted them to be small, in a stealth grow.... SCROG is an entirely different technique that takes a bit more time and effort. if you notice also in the second grow, the branches have all been bent and crushed, which is also inducing stress and reducing yield.

If cutting off all the leaves makes you feel that you're getting more light to the buds, then by all means, you do what you think is right.
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Correct. Pinch all the lower bud sites you want to transfer energy. But leave the leaves alone. The plant know what it is doing. If those lower leaves are contributing then they will remain with a proper diet. If they are not contributing then the plant will shed them, no need to try and out think the plant. Thats not speculation, thats years of education........
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
you are right, but me, in the interest of a good time ,will be proceeding under the shits and giggles category but before i do let me claim you alex, uncle ben and ben franklin the winner of this debate their is no evidence of deleafing helping the plant in fact it hurts the plant being little ity bity power plants, anything i say contrary to fact is just me goofing off... onc again NEVER CUT OFF YOUR FAN LEAVES!!!!!

( i hope that cures the butt hurt these guys are going thru and they never return... now for the rest of the interested people i will be moving forward with experiment.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
keebo3000 said:
you are right, but me, in the interest of a good time ,will be proceeding under the shits and giggles category but before i do let me claim you alex, uncle ben and ben franklin the winner of this debate their is no evidence of deleafing helping the plant in fact it hurts the plant being little ity bity power plants, anything i say contrary to fact is just me goofing off... onc again NEVER CUT OFF YOUR FAN LEAVES!!!!!

( i hope that cures the butt hurt these guys are going thru and they never return... now for the rest of the interested people i will be moving forward with experiment.
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You should probably look at the title of this thread you started before being a completely closed minded noob. Its pretty obvious you just wanted to hear the pros. The cons of course are just us butt hurt folks.....
 
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