Help with diagnosis? Tried everything, please read.

hmmm....i say transplaant in some decent soil, i like FoxFarm ocean Forrest, but i am really startin to like their happy frog...either way a transplant into some good soil will help, then find out your temps...but if they grow alot better after being outside its prolly your room/conditions...so some more info will be needed...

TheNameless said:

Hello! I have been having a few issues and am having trouble pinning down the culprit. Here is my current set up.

Growing indoors, under 318w cfl (22,000 lumens, mix of daylight and soft white) in a 2x2x1 box on a 20/4 light schedule. Fan blowing on them during light hours. I put them in the sunlight during the day if it is sunny cause this seems to make them grow much faster.
Watered about twice a week
Growing in 50% MG Moisture Control, 40% Perlite, 10% Rabbit Manure.
The bigger plant is about 5 weeks veg, and the two small ones are at about a week veg.
Water PH always between 6-7 but usually close to 6.8, mix of tap water and distilled water.

The issue I am having is with the curling leaves. In the beginning stages I had over watered the bigger plant and also had some ph issues (which is why the lower fan leaves are yellowed and twisted, I am more concerned about the new foliage). I have fixed those problems and now I still have curling . The leaves are growing good on all the plants, and they all look healthy. But they seem curlier than most plants I have seen. I have tried everything in the past, from flushing , PH adjusting, to transplanting on the big plant. The young ones are just starting out but are showing signs of possibly curling as well. The conditions should be perfect for a healthy plant in my setup but I always seem to run into the "claw" no matter what.

I would like to add that I really don't believe it is over watering even though it resembles it. I have let them dry out completely in between watering to be sure, and added plenty of perlite to the soil. It seems like the veins are the only thing curling. Its almost as if the leaves are growing big but the veins are not growing, making it curl.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Get a fan blowing on these ASAP.

You also noted that you flushed and transplanted them. They are probably stressed out, people usually have problems with just a transplant, but you added a flush in the mix. Poor plant!
Also, be careful with putting them outside. Think about the possibility of bringing in pests, and don't be naive.
If the soil is dry, you need to water it. Other than that, the leaves are very green and healthy. Most of the people who have problems with their plants are the ones who check on them every 5 minutes.
Remember, they are only plants.

Yea I have been meaning to pick up some Fox Farm and will be in the future as well as some better lighting, but for now I feel like this soil should be at least good enough not to cause these problems. It has good aeration and ph lvls.

Also, I don't put it outside, just by the window but it doesn't necessarily grow better, or solve any of the problems. It just grows faster, probably cause its better light. When they are under the CFL's its in a closet in a space I rigged up. It is a very small space with a ton of light and the air is pretty dry. Fan blowing at all times. Should be pretty ideal. Temps stay under 80, its dry with plenty of light. Good circulation.

It just seems that every plant I grow (these are about the 8th, 9th, and 10th plants I have grown) and every plant has had curling in some way. Originally it was a PH problem that I had fixed. Now I can't pin point it. Soil, PH, light, watering, and nutes all seem to be in check. Its driving me nuts! They seem to be healthy otherwise though.

sounds like youve donw to much to them in a short time. you cant run ph up n down that much. stick to 1 number and stay there. you need to be more accurate than those numbers. and im sure its cause its a liquid tester made for pools not growing. once you use it for foods and the food has any colour the reading wont even be right no matter what. the drops are usualy coloured to so add 2 colours togetehr and you get a 3rd one. dont want that.
then you mix R/O water back with tap water so any organcis are being killed off by the tap water. the bigest isse is the brand of soil you have. mg isnt for growing this stuff. not right anyways.

Just to be clear, I have never put them outside, just by the window on sunny days every now and then. For the most part they are in my closet under the CFL's. I agree I need to get some better soil, but I don't think it would cause the problems. They always have a fan on them as well. And there was some PH stress two weeks ago, but the PH has been corrected and consistent since then. I could see why the big plant would have problems cause I did put it through some stress, but the little ones should be perfect. And they seem to be growing in a curling fashion which is freakin me out.

The Claw can come from a variety of things- Moisture stress, too much N, too little N, Not enough Calcium, among them.

They look a little deficient in Nitrogen. This is indicated by the light yellowing in the lower third of the big plant.

But from what I've read so far, it seems like you're giving them too much attention...between the transplanting, watering, etc.

My advice would be to give 'em a light watering with a good source of nitrate N next time, and lock 'em in a room for 5 days Then report results...

They look pretty good, really, otherwise. Run with it!

dudeoflife said:

The Claw can come from a variety of things- Moisture stress, too much N, too little N, Not enough Calcium, among them.

They look a little deficient in Nitrogen. This is indicated by the light yellowing in the lower third of the big plant.

But from what I've read so far, it seems like you're giving them too much attention...between the transplanting, watering, etc.

My advice would be to give 'em a light watering with a good source of nitrate N next time, and lock 'em in a room for 5 days Then report results...

They look pretty good, really, otherwise. Run with it!

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Too much attention def a possibility haha. I keep a good eye on them. That light yellowing you see in the lower third though is from when I had PH issues in the beginning. It was damaged from then, but since then it seems I have fixed it. If you noticed, I put 10% rabbit manure in the soil which should supply it with enough nitrogen. Everything is growing, and looking great, just the vein curls. This is the issue with the small ones too. I'm not getting any spotting, or yellowing at all its almost like the plant is just curly by genetics. I have heard of that, but the two little ones are showing similar curling signs, but they are a different strain (not sure what, but good).

Your all-over plant curling isn't from a deficiency. That usually comes from a watering and/or temperature issue. Be sure to provide good airflow as jweezy mentioned. Watering cycles should go from moist all the way to the bottom to at least the top half of the soil being completely bone dry.

Wuts ur humidity?

Bublonichronic said:

Wuts ur humidity?

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Humidity has been a big suspect to me. I have no tool to monitor humidity, which is a problem I need to fix I know, but I would say that the air seems very dry. The leaves feel more dry to the touch than they should, which confused me. Cause I first it looked like over watering but would that make the leaves dry? And would low humidity possibly cause the curling? I attached some pics of the closet set up.

Mother's Finest said:

Your all-over plant curling isn't from a deficiency. That usually comes from a watering and/or temperature issue. Be sure to provide good airflow as jweezy mentioned. Watering cycles should go from moist all the way to the bottom to at least the top half of the soil being completely bone dry.

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That's what I thought. Didn't think it was a deficiency. Over watering was most likely an issue before, but I have seriously cut back on the watering since then, but the new foliage continues to curl even though its healthy. I mean I wait till it is bone dry to water, and air circulation seems great. The CFL's don't give off too much heat and I have the fan blowing directly on them.

whatever you think is wrong you still need to fix the ph, going from 6ph to 7 ph isnt good, thats a 100x diff in ph.and if you think that wont harm them or do this then youll never fix it. you need to be within a single point of ph. not all over like that. never did answer on the type of ph meter...liquid pool tester??? if so thats why. moving it all over is called ph imballance and will shut it down and lock up like this is

Medi 1 said:

whatever you think is qwrong you still need to fix the ph, going from 6ph to 7 ph isnt good, thats a 100x diff in ph.and if you think that wont harm them or do this then youll never fix it. you need to be within a single point of ph. not all over like that. never did answer on the type of ph meter...liquid pool tester??? if so thats why. moving it all over is called ph imballance and will shut it down and lock up like this is

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I'm sorry I should have been more clear on this. I had a PH problem within the first two weeks. I was using my very alkaline tap water, and it took a bit of time to fix (thats why the bottom fan leaves look yellow and twisted). Since then I have a set mixture of water that is a consistent 6.8 give or take maybe a tenth. The new growth should be void of any PH problems I believe. I have been watering with consistent water for about 2 weeks. I do test with an aquarium tester but I got the water very close to the 6.8 color. I spent easily an hour just perfecting the water recipe haha.

well youll never fix it with a pool tester. cant use foods with them and be right,. its meant for clear water not for using coloured foods with it. also 6.8 is high for any medium.

Medi 1 said:

well youll never fix it with a pool tester. cant use foods with them and be right,. its meant for clear water not for using coloured foods with it. also 6.8 is high for any medium.

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word, electric the way to go...but this looks like maybe humidity to me

I think they need more fresh air, you need to vent not just move the air. even leave the door open more

I thought they looked overwatered.

Check the root-tips CLOSELY, are they sharp and well-defined? And check the root appearance in general too while your at it.

Mushy root-tips in veg are a sure diagnosis of root-rot. Only the outermost 0,5-1 mm.

Medi 1 said:

well youll never fix it with a pool tester. cant use foods with them and be right,. its meant for clear water not for using coloured foods with it. also 6.8 is high for any medium.

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I do agree, and I am working on on getting a better tester. I have only added nutrients a few times at 1/4 strength, and it barely effected the water color. It was easy to calculate the difference.

I have read that 6.8 was the ideal level for nutrient uptake?

hampster said:

I thought they looked overwatered.

Check the root-tips CLOSELY, are they sharp and well-defined? And check the root appearance in general too while your at it.

Mushy root-tips in veg are a sure diagnosis of root-rot. Only the outermost 0,5-1 mm.

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I suspected over watering at first, cause it does resemble it. But the root tips look very nice, bright white with hairs all over. I also am pretty sparse with waterings, so it just seems unlikely.