Hydroponics Question and Answer NewGrowth Style

caddyluck said:

Hey New Growth! I'm on my first hydro grow and am 35 days into flower. My PPM is around 1300, what is a "typical" PPM # for flowering? I'm using GH 3-part Flora Series using the "agressive bloom" dose. They vegged for 6-7 weeks and did well under the "agressive growth" dose @ 1600PPM.

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Can be very strain dependent, some strains like AK-47 are nutrient sensitive while others like more. I would say the max I have seen is around 1800 PPM. A good way to see if your plants are utilizing the nutes is to monitor your PPM level ever day or so.
Here are some general rules:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise.
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.
Like I said these are only general rules always monitor your plants growth and look for tell tale signs of nutrient burn like deep green fan leaves and yellow leaf tips. Nutrient deficient plats will usually yellow from the bottom up. Keep a journal,this will help you fine tune, waste less nutrients and improve your grow next time around.

Also, would it be worth it on my next grow to use Liquid Koolbloom? Thanks!

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I'm not a fan of lots of additives, you can try it though. My experience with GH nutes is limited, I have used Ionic for a long time now and am kind of stuck in my ways.

flipsidesw said:

I dont have the scrubber yet. Didnt wanna throw down the cash unless i had a better feeling that i would work. The guy at hydro shop said it wouldnt work but I honestly felt he didnt know what he was talking about.

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Ask him why it would not work, if he can't give you a good answer ask his return policy. If they have a good policy then just buy it if it does not work return it. Dayton or other blower type fans are more capable of moving air through duct work however so you might look into using one of them.

Also he was charging 310 for 6'' can with scrubber. Anyways Ozone is my last resort.
Do you know of any cheap places for carbon scrubbers?

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Look up DIY scrubbers, activated carbon is pretty cheap and I have seen a few good designs online. The other possibility is to make your own corona discharge type ozone generator.

NewGrowth said:

You are correct rockwool holds a lot of water and can easily become over saturated. Once the plants get larger and the roots migrate out of the rockwool cubes it becomes less of a problem. For small clones in rockwool only I flood the table once a day right after lights on and only flood to about 1/2" up the cubes. When the plants get larger up to twice a day during lights on only and still just 1/2" up the 6" cubes. It also depends on the number of plants in a 4x4 tray for the AK-47/White Widow grow we packed close to 50 plants onto a 4x4 tray with 6" cubes. When the plants matured we were flooding much more often and for longer periods as the plants quickly sucked up the water. I prefer to run pots with hydroton and rockwool however because you can move your plants around. I am going to look into using fytocell next time around though.

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I dont know if I thanked you the other day for your quick reply. THANKS very much and just what I am going to do this first run-----

growinman

growinman said:

I dont know if I thanked you the other day for your quick reply. THANKS very much and just what I am going to do this first run-----
growinman

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No problem! Keep us updated, good luck!

Hi NewGrowth...this is a wonderful service for all of us. Really informative thanks!!

My seedlings are about 11 days old, growing in rapid rooter plugs. I just put them under 400w yesterday. The roots are getting well established. My question is whether it's ok to put them into the reservoir system at this point. I have a DWC system that has a 14 hole tray that sits on top of two reservoirs that continually circulates the nutes. It will take some days, probably for the roots to work through the netpots and hit the res. If they are ready to go in, should I have 1/4 strength nutes for when the roots hit? Or will it still be too soon? Again, thanks for your sage wisdom. Or haze wisdom.

mayan said:

Hi NewGrowth...this is a wonderful service for all of us. Really informative thanks!!

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The more people that have the info the better! Grow more pot and overgrow the government! Plus I'm learning too so its all good!

My seedlings are about 11 days old, growing in rapid rooter plugs. I just put them under 400w yesterday. The roots are getting well established. My question is whether it's ok to put them into the reservoir system at this point.

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Go for it! You may still have to hand water a bit but try to keep it to a minimum this will encourage your roots to migrate downward seeking out water.

I have a DWC system that has a 14 hole tray that sits on top of two reservoirs that continually circulates the nutes. It will take some days, probably for the roots to work through the netpots and hit the res. If they are ready to go in, should I have 1/4 strength nutes for when the roots hit? Or will it still be too soon?

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Is this one of those so called "bubbleponics" set ups with the combined drip/DWC system? Try running the nutes at 500 ppm and see how your plants respond. You should be safe at these levels.

Again, thanks for your sage wisdom. Or haze wisdom.

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Not a sage for sure, I still have plenty to learn and grow.

Hey NewGrowth...thanks so much!!

This is my first grow in about five years and I'm trying to relearn whatever knowledge I scrimped together the first time.

The hyrdro system that I use is basically two reservoirs stacked on top of one another and the 14 hole tray that sits on top of the upper reservoir. A pump in the bottom res continually pumps liquid into the top res and a drain hole in the top continually regulates the height. Hence, there is nute solution at all times in both reservoirs. If I remember correctly, the nute levels are kept right below the bottom of the net pots. And the roots are in...hopefully...well oxygenated water for the entire grow.

mayan said:

Hey NewGrowth...thanks so much!!

This is my first grow in about five years and I'm trying to relearn whatever knowledge I scrimped together the first time.

The hyrdro system that I use is basically two reservoirs stacked on top of one another and the 14 hole tray that sits on top of the upper reservoir. A pump in the bottom res continually pumps liquid into the top res and a drain hole in the top continually regulates the height. Hence, there is nute solution at all times in both reservoirs. If I remember correctly, the nute levels are kept right below the bottom of the net pots. And the roots are in...hopefully...well oxygenated water for the entire grow.

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Ok its more of a drip/NFT system then kind of like a bucket system. Sounds good let me know how it works out for you.

Actually isn't it more of a deep water culture because the roots are always sitting in a tub of nutes? Of course, I don't know my ass from elbow around some of this nomenclature. I should add that 5 years ago I did about three grows. Each one was better than the next. So I think this system works well as long as the pump holds out , the roots don't clog any of the drains, and I can resist getting too fancy. Of course, alot of my knowledge has evaporated like the dew on summer grass. Alas. But it's coming back quick.

mayan said:

Actually isn't it more of a deep water culture because the roots are always sitting in a tub of nutes?

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A DWC (Deep Water Cultivation) is not recirculating it is simply an aerated nutrient solution that contains the root mass, this system requires no seperate reservoir. An NFT (Nutrient Film Technique) is a constantly recirculated nutrient solution, the solution is aerated by constant recirculation and an air pump is often incorporated into the reservoir. The roots are always kept in the solution in a NFT or timers may be used to increase root zone oxygenation. A drip system usually incorporates an absorbent media and pumps are timed at specific intervals to water the plants.
A dutch bucket system incorporates both drip and NFT techniques usually to allow for larger plants. Your system sounds more like something along these lines.
Do you have an air pump in your primary reservoir? If not it may be advisable to add one to further oxygenate your nutrient solution.

Yes...I have the pump capacity for six airstones although I am lately led to believe that this may be overkill. Apparently, the water can only oxygenate just so much via the airstones, or something like that...and the recirculation also provides oxygenation. I may cut down to two in each tank.

BTW, what is the "film" in NFT? Aside from my not understanding what that is, what you describe seems spot on.

mayan said:

Yes...I have the pump capacity for six airstones although I am lately led to believe that this may be overkill. Apparently, the water can only oxygenate just so much via the airstones, or something like that...and the recirculation also provides oxygenation. I may cut down to two in each tank.
BTW, what is the "film" in NFT? Aside from my not understanding what that is, what you describe seems spot on.

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Don't hold me to this but I believe the term "film" is used because in these systems part of the root mass is suspended in air and the rest is submerged in a thin "film" like layer of recirculating nutrient solution. You could test different methods with you system to achieve maximum root zone oxygenation. You could try putting you pump on a timer and running it at intervals. H202 works well for both sterilizing and oxygenation. Lots of air stones is good, a turbulent reservoir tends to discourage pathogen and algae growth further. I don't know if you would really need 6 stones depends on the size of your reservoir.

Hey NewGrowth, thanks for the explanation. You've given me food for thought. I don't mean to spam your thread here but I have a couple of more questions, one that stems from your recent description. The other is a bit more generic.

1) Do you think it makes a difference how much of the root is in the water and how much is exposed to air? My recollection from five years ago is that most of the root - except for maybe an inch or two - was in the nutrient stock. There were about three or four airstones keeping them company. I think that's what the system was designed for although it is probably a Model T compared to some of the Ferraris that I've seen discussed here. Root growth was prolific and the plants were, for the most part, healthy. At the same time, if exposure to more air would be helpful, I'd contemplate modifying my grow.

2) At this point, my seedlings are about 11 or 12 days old. The roots are established. They have been under the 400w for two days. It is currently about 2feet above their tops...I can feel no heat with my hand. Do you have any suggestions for lowering the light? Should I do it in one swell foop or should I lower the height to top ratio gradually? About how high above the top should the light be when all the dialing in is over. I know about the hand test...I just want to get a sense of what the average distance should be. It's a PL reflector and is not air cooled.

(Aww, hell...as long as I'm one stop shopping maybe you could also remind me as to whether the valves in the piping from the airpumps are supposed to go in the water or whether they just kinda hang there, out side of the res. I've plumb forgot.)
Thanks so much!!!

mayan said:

Hey NewGrowth, thanks for the explanation. You've given me food for thought. I don't mean to spam your thread here but I have a couple of more questions, one that stems from your recent description. The other is a bit more generic.
1) Do you think it makes a difference how much of the root is in the water and how much is exposed to air? My recollection from five years ago is that most of the root - except for maybe an inch or two - was in the nutrient stock. There were about three or four airstones keeping them company. I think that's what the system was designed for although it is probably a Model T compared to some of the Ferraris that I've seen discussed here. Root growth was prolific and the plants were, for the most part, healthy. At the same time, if exposure to more air would be helpful, I'd contemplate modifying my grow.

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Has not been to much change in hydro systems designs and I would say if it is not broken don't fix it. The suspended roots should provide more than enough oxygen. It should not matter much how much of the root mass is suspended as long as they are kept in a high humidity environment so they don't dry out. Its a bad sign if the roots get woody, this will happen to some extent with the larger tap roots but the smaller roots should develop little "hairs".

2) At this point, my seedlings are about 11 or 12 days old. The roots are established. They have been under the 400w for two days. It is currently about 2feet above their tops...I can feel no heat with my hand. Do you have any suggestions for lowering the light? Should I do it in one swell foop or should I lower the height to top ratio gradually? About how high above the top should the light be when all the dialing in is over. I know about the hand test...I just want to get a sense of what the average distance should be. It's a PL reflector and is not air cooled.

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Without an air-cooled hood the light will need to be a bit further away. I will put an air cooled 1000w HPS 14" away from the tops. I would do as you said and slowly lower your light do you don't overheat your young seedlings. I'm sure you could safely get an uncooled 400w HPS within 14" of the plant tops when they are more mature.

(Aww, hell...as long as I'm one stop shopping maybe you could also remind me as to whether the valves in the piping from the airpumps are supposed to go in the water or whether they just kinda hang there, out side of the res. I've plumb forgot.)
Thanks so much!!!

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Leave the valves outside, the only thing you need in the reservoir is the air stone.

Great! Thanks!! I'm sure I'll be seeing ya in a bit. You've been exceedingly helpful.

Hi NewGroth i have a little question
should i put some hydroton around my nets
to protect the roots from the light and heat ?

they seem to burn once they try to go out from the net...
i hope you understand me

sllik said:

Hi NewGroth i have a little question
should i put some hydroton around my nets
to protect the roots from the light and heat ?
they seem to burn once they try to go out from the net...
i hope you understand me

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Might be a good idea or you could put those pots in larger regular pots. I use regular pots (as opposed to net pots) on the flood table for this reason.

Hey NewGrowth, Thanks for opening the new thread, its been real helpful. Iv been planing my 1st grow for about 2 weeks now and i plan to start it in about 10 days when i get my seeds from the mail. At first i was going to do a soil grow, but hydro just seems alot more sensible. I plan to grow out enough clones to do a sog, but im not quite sure how to start them off. I plan to do a sog table with a DWC, but im not sure the materials id need, you think you could shed some light on my situation?
Thanks

swishatwista said:

Hey NewGrowth, Thanks for opening the new thread, its been real helpful. Iv been planing my 1st grow for about 2 weeks now and i plan to start it in about 10 days when i get my seeds from the mail. At first i was going to do a soil grow, but hydro just seems alot more sensible. I plan to grow out enough clones to do a sog, but im not quite sure how to start them off. I plan to do a sog table with a DWC, but im not sure the materials id need, you think you could shed some light on my situation?
Thanks

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Are you building your own DWC set up? There are many ways to do this so it is difficult to answer your question without writing at least a page. This link provides a good basic overview of different hydroponics systems. Simply Hydroponics - System types

Check this one out too:
put together a homemade hydroponics system that works

Provide me with more details such as:
1. Size of grow space
2. Number of plants
3.Budget

Do a little more research and come back with some more specific questions. I will be happy to answer them for you.

o, yea sorry NG, ill be growing in a total space about about 4.5 ft by 3.5.(Its gonna be a box, about 5 ft tall. I wouldnt mind growing 16 plants each grow with sog and hope/plan on getting about an oz each plant. Im going to be using a Flouro, or CFL( i had the impression that they're the same kind of light) and will be using a 600w hps to take the clones into flowering when they root. I'm going to be using a DWC grow, with a reservior, and air pump. I probably wouldnt be able to get 16 plants with the average rubermade container, but i think i might try to either make my own combining two and just bonding them together some how, or try to find one bigger then the normal ones. I am on a budget but i think i can afford all the essentials for the grow. I'm going garage saling tomorow in hopes to find some good hydro materials. As for ventalation, i plan on having 4 or 5, 6'' fans. One is gonna be pushing air in and one will be sucking air out. im probably gonna have a carbon filter attacked to the fan sucking out. And the other 2 or 3 fans will be circulating air inside the box? I also think im going to cool my lighting by having a reflector with a hole( i may cut the hole myself) and have the fan sucking out attacked to it via some small vent. tubing. I have a few other details about nutes, but i also have some questions about using h2o2 to keep the reservoir sterile. What do you think HG?
And also, do you think i
Should i grow in 8'' Rockwool?

swishatwista said:

o, yea sorry NG, ill be growing in a total space about about 4.5 ft by 3.5.(Its gonna be a box, about 5 ft tall. I wouldnt mind growing 16 plants each grow with sog and hope/plan on getting about an oz each plant. Im going to be using a Flouro, or CFL( i had the impression that they're the same kind of light) and will be using a 600w hps to take the clones into flowering when they root.

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So flouros for your mothers and 600W for flowering?

I'm going to be using a DWC grow, with a reservior, and air pump. I probably wouldnt be able to get 16 plants with the average rubermade container, but i think i might try to either make my own combining two and just bonding them together some how, or try to find one bigger then the normal ones.

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Not sure on the dimensions of rubbermaids you might want to find out to see what you can fit into that space. I put 12 plants in a 30 gal before, it was a tight fit though.

I am on a budget but i think i can afford all the essentials for the grow. I'm going garage saling tomorow in hopes to find some good hydro materials. As for ventalation, i plan on having 4 or 5, 6'' fans. One is gonna be pushing air in and one will be sucking air out. im probably gonna have a carbon filter attacked to the fan sucking out. And the other 2 or 3 fans will be circulating air inside the box?

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Good luck, you live in Canada? I have yet to see hydro equipment at a garage sale but you might find something, let me know what you find. Probably only need one or two fans to circulate air in that space. For exhaust/intake you should only need one or two fans rated at least 80cfm (higher if pulling through a carbon filter or you have a lot of duct worK) for your estimated 78 cubic foot grow space.

I also think im going to cool my lighting by having a reflector with a hole( i may cut the hole myself) and have the fan sucking out attacked to it via some small vent. tubing.

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Cool tubes are more efficient, air cooled reflectors tend to radiate heat back into the grow space. Check out making you own for the budget minded pick up a "bake around tube" on e-bay or if you are lucky you will find one at a garage sale.

I have a few other details about nutes, but i also have some questions about using h2o2 to keep the reservoir sterile. What do you think HG?

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Ask away . . .

And also, do you think i
Should i grow in 8'' Rockwool?

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Not in a DWC set up, the rockwool mill become over saturated and cause root rot. Use 1" cubes for your cuttings in net pots with hydroton for a DWC system.