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CaliWorthington

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
Shwagbag said:
I think a lot of LED growers don't really care about yields relative to space, but are more concerned with whether or not they can grow reasonably good bud with low(er) wattage. I've seen some good bud from LED, but the yields relative space are not in the same ballpark. Many LED growers are "thinkers" and they see the potential in the future. They just really enjoy following and learning the tech which is commendable. If yield matters to anyone shopping for LED's, they should stop their shopping there though.

For me personally, I'm all about maximizing the quality and yields to my space and I'll use as much energy as necessary to do it. Everyone grows for different reasons and with different methods, to each their own. Even for smaller tents I think a 600w digital dimmable is the most versatile light a person can buy for the money. MH & HPS switchable making it usable for both veg and flower, power can be raised and lowered depending on climate and seasonal weather. But most importantly, you know what you're going to get.
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I agree, a lot of hobby/personal/medical growers have priorities other than maximum yield. This is a good thing for commercial growers, as they can watch someone else work with the new technology.

About a year ago, I overheard a medical collective owner/grower telling a hydro store owner that LED had... wait for it... more penetration than HID. He was building his own LED's. That's when I realized LED must be getting pretty good and deserved another look. LED can produce, if done right, but the up-front cost is high, unless you build them yourself.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
If you want led's that actually compete with 1000w hps, it is going to cost about $500/2x2. That is more than most want to spend. Then some of the guys who do spend it...try to push it to 3x3 and then suffer in yield. It all boils down to how much light the plants are getting. The question is what led(s) meet the requirement for your whole space?

There are only really two, maybe three led companies that I can think of that can do it while still saving a decent amount of wattage...Apache and A51. Then Blackdog and Illumitex are close, but I need to see some start to finish grows first.

The break even point on $2000(top end) for 600w led vs $450 for 1000w hps is about 1.5 years on electricity alone @$.25/kWh. Then for the next 3.5yrs you are enjoying pure profit savings. With bulb changes and power savings, by 5years you would be $2500 richer than with hps(that's including the massive upfront difference).

If you can still match yield(buy quality) and increase potency and quality, then it could pay back sooner counting that added value.

Long story short, good led's are an investment

EDIT:
DIY has more options and can be as good as any company panel...just cost about the same in the end.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Shwagbag said:
Based on what I've seen from LED I would have to agree. But that NASA tech looks pretty damn sweet!

I think a lot of LED growers don't really care about yields relative to space, but are more concerned with whether or not they can grow reasonably good bud with low(er) wattage. I've seen some good bud from LED, but the yields relative space are not in the same ballpark. Many LED growers are "thinkers" and they see the potential in the future. They just really enjoy following and learning the tech which is commendable. If yield matters to anyone shopping for LED's, they should stop their shopping there though.

For me personally, I'm all about maximizing the quality and yields to my space and I'll use as much energy as necessary to do it. Everyone grows for different reasons and with different methods, to each their own. Even for smaller tents I think a 600w digital dimmable is the most versatile light a person can buy for the money. MH & HPS switchable making it usable for both veg and flower, power can be raised and lowered depending on climate and seasonal weather. But most importantly, you know what you're going to get.

I jumped on board with LED's after being totally brainwashed by Irishboy's threads. I'm fairly certain at this point that he was using a 1000w HPS and moving his plants to an LED tent for photos. Either Irishboy was Mike from GLH or Irish was getting commissions on light sales even though he denied it. Either way, its one of the dumbest things I've ever done being sold like that. I bought the lights at a discounted rate as they were returns, which should have been enough of a flag to begin with. Its either that or Irish is one of the best growers on the web. But most probably noticed that when things went bad for Mike, Irish totally disappeared in 2011.

Here is the link to my LED flowering experiment if anyone cares to see LED epic failure.

BTW, has anyone checked out Spectra's new(er) website? I think Mike finally sold it to someone a while back. They have an option to design your own panel on there including 2700k or 5500k. Spectra

Psuagro, do you still have/use your panels?
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Yeah I still have my Hans panel Ver 1 and it does what is advertised as :"led panel to flower MJ at half the HID wattage", many growers have done waaayy better than me with the panels around here and other forums. That is exactly the problem with Irishboy's spectra grows, NO ONE could replicate his results and then the BS started with Mike. We all had our doubts about Irishdouche after that and then we got confirmation recently from Kitehigh(RIP) that he went over to his house and he was gloating about using HID for the grows and pulling the switch. It's a real shame cause those grows got everyone excited about led tech.....fucker!!..........but then I came on here following a snowdream run and puffenuff(grower) was killing it with those early advanced panels. Endive/hogboss/endo/etc. where also doing good grows with other panels.

I never owned the spectra panels, Your confusing Mike from hydroponics Hut which I had beef with his POS progrow 180 that I bought. I questioned his "cree" diodes(EH & spuzzum confirmed it) and then he said he would sue me for slander on the forums and other shit...... anyways I got my money back;-)

Led panels have improved greatly since then Shwag and will continue to do so due to the tech..........next year you will have true "HID killer" panels with cree mk-r or better leds hitting that 250lm+ per watt warm white spectrum IMO.
 
Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
The Dawg said:
Please Brother GroenJoe Is 2oz's Per Plant All Ya Want????Check Out Area-51 Brother 1 Sgs-160 Classic Would Be A Perfect Fit For Your Dr-60.I Pulled 8oz From 1 Plant In Hydro With 1 Of These Bad Boy's :weed:
Heres The Link http://area51lighting.com/LED-Grow-Lights.html
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I don't think its safe to assume that these lights will translate into an easy ounce per square foot. It seems you were able to achieve exceptional results using a waterfarm though, so congrats on that. The best LED grows I've seen to date are WeJuana's runs testing out various panels. I must say I was shockingly surprised at the plant health and yields he was able to achieve with a variety of different lights. It just seems like many people in this thread want the lights to work so badly that they're giving them just a bit too much credit.

I read through your journal and saw you finished two plants with the A51's, one yielded 4 zips + hash material and the other 5.25 zips. Where are you getting the 8 oz from? I'd love to see the 8 oz journal if you still have it up, please share. That's a very nice journal and some kickass bud homey well done.

PSUAGRO. said:
Yeah I still have my Hans panel Ver 1 and it does what is advertised as :"led panel to flower MJ at half the HID wattage", many growers have done waaayy better than me with the panels around here and other forums. That is exactly the problem with Irishboy's spectra grows, NO ONE could replicate his results and then the BS started with Mike. We all had our doubts about Irishdouche after that and then we got confirmation recently from Kitehigh(RIP) that he went over to his house and he was gloating about using HID for the grows and pulling the switch. It's a real shame cause those grows got everyone excited about led tech.....fucker!!..........but then I came on here following a snowdream run and puffenuff(grower) was killing it with those early advanced panels. Endive/hogboss/endo/etc. where also doing good grows with other panels.

I never owned the spectra panels, Your confusing Mike from hydroponics Hut which I had beef with his POS progrow 180 that I bought. I questioned his "cree" diodes(EH & spuzzum confirmed it) and then he said he would sue me for slander on the forums and other shit...... anyways I got my money back;-)

Led panels have improved greatly since then Shwag and will continue to do so due to the tech..........next year you will have true "HID killer" panels with cree mk-r or better leds hitting that 250lm+ per watt warm white spectrum IMO.
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My bad, I thought you grabbed a couple of those Spectra Panels as well. Not confusing you with Mike, probably one of the other peeps you mentioned, but I knew you were included in many of the journals going around at that time. I never heard the confirmation about Irishboy until now, but its good to know my suspicion is correct. Its really to bad too because he actually seemed like a pretty cool cat while I was following his journals. He flaked right out at the end real bad.

Greengenes707 said:
If you want led's that actually compete with 1000w hps, it is going to cost about $500/2x2. That is more than most want to spend. Then some of the guys who do spend it...try to push it to 3x3 and then suffer in yield. It all boils down to how much light the plants are getting. The question is what led(s) meet the requirement for your whole space?

There are only really two, maybe three led companies that I can think of that can do it while still saving a decent amount of wattage...Apache and A51. Then Blackdog and Illumitex are close, but I need to see some start to finish grows first.

The break even point on $2000(top end) for 600w led vs $450 for 1000w hps is about 1.5 years on electricity alone @$.25/kWh. Then for the next 3.5yrs you are enjoying pure profit savings. With bulb changes and power savings, by 5years you would be $2500 richer than with hps(that's including the massive upfront difference).

If you can still match yield(buy quality) and increase potency and quality, then it could pay back sooner counting that added value.

Long story short, good led's are an investment

EDIT:
DIY has more options and can be as good as any company panel...just cost about the same in the end.
Click to expand...
I don't see how pushing a an LED light from a 2 x 2 to a 2 x 3 space will decrease yields. It just doesn't make logical sense. The core footprint remains the same, while the extra space results in a wider footprint with less intensity around the perimeter. Either way, the yields would be greater. Beyond that, I think the norm for yields using a 1000w HID would be about 1-1.25+ zips psf depending on genetics. I'm using that benchmark from personal experience using a 1000w in a 4 x 4 tent. We may agree to disagree on that number, but that said, are you claiming that 4-5 zips is achievable in a 2 x 2 with one of those lights? This is the kind of off the cuff remark that doesn't really help this thread. IF that were true, HID's would already be displaced as the leading choice for cannabis flowering. Show us, don't tell us.

For the record, I'm not just hijacking this thread to be a downer and doubt everything, but there needs to be some proof to support some of the claims made here. There are some bold claims made here that need some serious evidence to back them up. Simply assuming what the lights can do in this thread is the first mistake anyone can make when considering investing money in them.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Shwagbag said:
I don't see how pushing a an LED light from a 2 x 2 to a 2 x 3 space will decrease yields. It just doesn't make logical sense. The core footprint remains the same, while the extra space results in a wider footprint with less intensity around the perimeter. Either way, the yields would be greater. Beyond that, I think the norm for yields using a 1000w HID would be about 1-1.25+ zips psf depending on genetics. I'm using that benchmark from personal experience using a 1000w in a 4 x 4 tent. We may agree to disagree on that number, but that said, are you claiming that 4-5 zips is achievable in a 2 x 2 with one of those lights? This is the kind of off the cuff remark that doesn't really help this thread. IF that were true, HID's would already be displaced as the leading choice for cannabis flowering. Show us, don't tell us.

For the record, I'm not just hijacking this thread to be a downer and doubt everything, but there needs to be some proof to support some of the claims made here. There are some bold claims made here that need some serious evidence to back them up. Simply assuming what the lights can do in this thread is the first mistake anyone can make when considering investing money in them.
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If you are willing to at least acknowledge the information everyone presets and make your own educated decisions...then I think you have the right to ask why.

Well it does because led's are direction light sources that don't spread too much outside there housing. This why there can be a big difference in light by just a few inches. And to keep the numbers on par(pun intended) with what a 1000hps does over that same footprint, a 2x2 for smaller panes like A51 and apache's at120 and at200 is what needs to happen. If you want to compete with 600hps than you can expand. Numbers are number and you can get as much or more light from a good led system over your whole 4x4 footprint. But the amount of companies that will actually meet the numbers is very limited like I said. I am talking 5-8zips per light when ran at the 2x2 coverage...~1.5g/w is possible. But push the coverage too much and things like .7g/w can happen...not the worst, but not great. I have apache's and an Indagro w/pontoon. I am speaking from experience so take it for what it's worth. I may have a fresh screename but I have been showing my grows in depth on here for a while. You should check out tags420...he seemed just like me:wink:. Plus while your looking, The Dawg, djwimbo, puffenuff...all using quality american panels and doing great things with them. There are more people popping up with a51 panels every week.
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Shwagbag said:
I don't think its safe to assume that these lights will translate into an easy ounce per square foot. It seems you were able to achieve exceptional results using a waterfarm though, so congrats on that. The best LED grows I've seen to date are WeJuana's runs testing out various panels. I must say I was shockingly surprised at the plant health and yields he was able to achieve with a variety of different lights. It just seems like many people in this thread want the lights to work so badly that they're giving them just a bit too much credit.

I read through your journal and saw you finished two plants with the A51's, one yielded 4 zips + hash material and the other 5.25 zips. Where are you getting the 8 oz from? I'd love to see the 8 oz journal if you still have it up, please share. That's a very nice journal and some kickass bud homey well done.QUOTE]









Brother Swag Many Growers Including Myself Have To Re-Learn How To Grow Again With Led's Cause We Know It All's Know What Were Doing Right???Wrong Teaching This Old Dog New Tricks Takes Time Which Excitied Me Cause I Got To Re-Learn The Basics Of Growing Again Hell With All These New Fangled Genetics Im Growing With I Had To Re-Learn What They Like And Disslike.I Also See That You Read My Very First Journal After I Made The Switch From A 400 Cmh To Leds And I Hope You Learned A Thing Or 2 From My Noob Mistakes Cause I Made A Royal Metric Shit Ton Of Them.Now Its My Belife That Leds Will Surpass Hid's This Year And Hopefully My Current Grow Will Show The Ppl Thats On Da Fence That Leds Are Here To Stay.Heres A Link To My Last Grow That Shows The Lady That Pulled 8 Plus oz's.Peace And Opposum Grease :weed:https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/644641-all-cree-led-plus-waterfarm-34.html
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Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
If you are willing to at least acknowledge the information everyone presets and make your own educated designs...then I think you have the right to ask why.

Well it does because led's are direction light sources that don't spread too much outside there housing. This why there can be a big difference in light by just a few inches. And to keep the numbers on par(pun intended) with what a 1000hps does over that same footprint, a 2x2 for smaller panes like A51 and apache's at120 and at200 is what needs to happen. If you want to compete with 600hps than you can expand. Numbers are number and you can get as much or more light from a good led system over your whole 4x4 footprint. But the amount of companies that will actually meet the numbers is very limited like I said. I am talking 5-8zips per light when ran at the 2x2 coverage...~1.5g/w is possible. But push the coverage too much and things like .7g/w can happen...not the worst, but not great. I have apache's and an Indagro w/pontoon. I am speaking from experience so take it for what it's worth. I may have a fresh screename but I have been showing my grows in depth on here for a while. You should check out tags420...he seemed just like me:wink:. Plus while your looking, The Dawg, djwimbo, puffenuff...all using quality american panels and doing great things with them. There are more people popping up with a51 panels every week.
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I think what you're trying to say in English, is that in order to use the light in a 3 x 3 footprint you have to compromise intensity and penetration for added coverage, which is correct per the inverse square law, so I agree.

Here's a bit of info I found from a representative from A51 in Cococola36's thread.

EraserHead said:

I think your second run will be better, as they'll be start to finish. Just be careful of the heights. Too much and you'll stunt the plants and not get the optimal coverage to penetration ratio, or too far away, and the plants will not develop as much as their potential allows, and also penetration suffers too.

Grow area size has a lot to do with where the light should be placed. The lenses are wide enough for good coverage. In a 2x2 tent, we got well over 1200 Umol'/s at 12", and 800 Umol'/s, which is the target, came in at 20". In a 2x3 tent, we got 1156 Umol'/s @ 12", and 800 Umol'/s came in at 18". In a 3x3 tent, we got 975 Umol'/s @ 12", and 800 Umol'/s came in at 14". if you were to use a 3x3 tent, we suggest to use a screen and keep your plants pretty short. The bigger your grow area per light, you're trading penetration for coverage. A 2x3 area gives you the best balance between coverage (25w per square foot) and up to 36" of penetration.

Also, in a 6x6 tent using 6 units, with all the lights overlapping, you can achieve 800 Umol'/s @ 16.5".

Has anyone seen these before? eBay link
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Pretty much. The age old problem with led's. You asked about yield, so I put it in yield terms.

Just for science sake, because most led's use focusing lenses they have a collimated effect somewhat like a laser. They do not loose intensity at the same rate as the inverse square law would say. But it is pretty close, and depends on lens angles. This is one reason greenhouses like led's, since GH's hang so high. And also a reason why led's coverage is limited at our lower hanging heights.

EH is the a51 owner so that is as good as you will get for experienced talk.

A 1000w hps puts out ~950µmols from 24". And not only that, but it put's out ~350µmols at the edge of a 4x4 from 24". Those are what led's need to live up to, and better with gavita's. But those numbers can be replicated or improved by led(s). It just cost a more than the normal grower in willing to spend at once. That is a personal decision.
 
Bad Karma

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Yeah I still have my Hans panel Ver 1 and it does what is advertised as :"led panel to flower MJ at half the HID wattage", many growers have done waaayy better than me with the panels around here and other forums. That is exactly the problem with Irishboy's spectra grows, NO ONE could replicate his results and then the BS started with Mike. We all had our doubts about Irishdouche after that and then we got confirmation recently from Kitehigh(RIP) that he went over to his house and he was gloating about using HID for the grows and pulling the switch. It's a real shame cause those grows got everyone excited about led tech.....fucker!!

I never owned the spectra panels, Your confusing Mike from hydroponics Hut which I had beef with his POS progrow 180 that I bought. I questioned his "cree" diodes(EH & spuzzum confirmed it) and then he said he would sue me for slander on the forums and other shit...... anyways I got my money back;-)
Click to expand...
The person who was growing with and pushing the Spectra panels is not the original Irishboy.
Irishboy sold his profile to the guy behind the Spectra's for a good chunk of cash.
That's why, if you had been following Irishboys grows around that time, you would have noticed a change in his attitude and grammar.
I was so close to selling off my ProSource LED's, so I could buy some Spectra's, but I'm glad I didn't.

Also, I thought Ben was the guy behind Hydroponic's Hut, as I had problems with him as well.
I, too, bought a Progrow 180 and was utterly disappointed by it.
Never trust any of their "Propaganda Farms" videos that they have linked as grow journals.
The reason you never see the lights, in the same shot as the plants, is because they use CFL's to increase the lumen for the videos.
Thus making their ProGrow lights look way more powerful then they are, but trust me, they're terrible.


Shwagbag said:
My bad, I thought you grabbed a couple of those Spectra Panels as well. Not confusing you with Mike, probably one of the other peeps you mentioned, but I knew you were included in many of the journals going around at that time. I never heard the confirmation about Irishboy until now, but its good to know my suspicion is correct. Its really to bad too because he actually seemed like a pretty cool cat while I was following his journals. He flaked right out at the end real bad.
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You must have been following the original Irishboy if you thought he was a cool cat.
Once Mike took over the profile things got shady, and went to hell in a hand basket, quickly.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Bad Karma said:
The person who was growing with and pushing the Spectra panels is not the original Irishboy.
Irishboy sold his profile to the guy behind the Spectra's for a good chunk of cash.
That's why, if you had been following Irishboys grows around that time, you would have noticed a change in his attitude and grammar.
I was so close to selling off my ProSource LED's, so I could buy some Spectra's, but I'm glad I didn't.

Also, I thought Ben was the guy behind Hydroponic's Hut, as I had problems with him as well.
I, too, bought a Progrow 180 and was utterly disappointed by it.
Never trust any of their "Propaganda Farms" videos that they have linked as grow journals.
The reason you never see the lights, in the same shot as the plants, is because they use CFL's to increase the lumen for the videos.
Thus making their ProGrow lights look way more powerful then they are, but trust me, they're terrible.




You must have been following the original Irishboy if you thought he was a cool cat.
Once Mike took over the profile things got shady, and went to hell in a hand basket, quickly.
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Shit It is BEN who owns hydroponics hut!!! and Mike for the spectras ..... was a long time ago friend, my mistake. Ben was an asswipe no doubt, finally caved and removed the "cree" logos from his webiste and blamed his chinese supplier of course.

Irishboy's grows where tainted from the begining!! even before mike took over because NO one could replicate his results....yeah he WAS a cool guy, but then Kitehigh thought so too. and here is my issue:




  • Quote:
    [HR][/HR]Originally Posted by Kite High
    That is a preposterous way of measuring how the lights do...Sure if I wanted to grow puny plants I would look into it. But I prefer trees as they are stronger in potency IMO and since I grow for only myself I am in no hurry. On many many occasions I have well exceeded that goal without even trying as it means nothing whatsoever. For even in the accepted way of measuring yield performance of ??/grams per m2 there is error as it does not take into account height and length of grow.

    Dude do what you do and have fun. Wanna dissuade me from hid to LED show me trees grown with consistency by more than a couple of people. For I tell you this I personally know a person who is a member here that was showing amazing results a few years back with LEDs. Went to his home to meet him as he was really cool people. Guess what? He was using hid and then turning them off and leaving just the leds on when he photographed. Why? Bragging rights and 30% of sales for doing so.

    I know all of the math etc but I do not see those numbers in action. One day I am sure leds will become a viable option but that day is not here.

    Also everyone please do realize that hid tech is being revamped as well and cmh is part of that trend as well as the high voltage hid systems such as Gavita.
    [HR][/HR]


    Tell me it was Irishboy:)............always had my doubts about his grows because NO one could even get close to his results with those spectra panels that I know of (excellent growers too)

    CMH is a great indoor lighting option........especially in the winter​
  • 02-03-2013, 04:36 PM
    Kite High
    You win psuagro!! Yep I inew it before he admitted it


    ​
Even Mr x grow(evo v3) 2gpw+ was also found out to be a fraud if I remember correctly?not a 100% sure though(spanish forums)......sad part is the growers who spent big $$ on products that don't work as advertised......happens everyday on these forums unfortunately.

CaliWorthington said:
SolisTek has some interesting LED's on their website, that aren't available yet. They have air cooled hoods.

http://solis-tek.com/products/hiled.html
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Nice find.......their ballasts are top-notch...........we'll see about those led panels though:P
 
CaliWorthington

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Nice find.......their ballasts are top-notch...........we'll see about those led panels though:P
Click to expand...
Thanks. They do seem geared towards the commercial grower, since they look more like an HID reflector than most LED grow lights, and SolisTek is a serious company.

One of my two Quantum 600's was making a funny noise last I checked. So, I was looking at SolisTek ballasts, in case I decide against this induction/LED combo thing.

It's like, on one hand, I'm proud of my reflector cooling setup, and don't want to dismantle it. OTOH, the fan makes noise, and costs money to run. Both the induction light and LED red booster use passive cooling. It would be quieter, cheaper to run, and less eye fatiguing.
 
daveroller

daveroller

Well-Known Member
GroenJoe said:
Hmmm, should I also have mentioned im living in the EU? So i would need a light which will ship and work in the EU with its different voltage
Click to expand...
No worries, bro! This is from Area 51's web site:

"we ship to USA, Canada, western Europe, Australia and New Zealand.
If you do not see your country listed, please contact us for more info."

And the panel will automatically switch to European voltage.
 
GroenJoe

GroenJoe

Member
Alright, im probably going to buy a light this week, but im still not 100% sure whats best for my DR60 2 plant scrog. Ive heard the sgs160 runs a fair amount warmer than the hans panels, and my ventilation isnt the best. Also karma said that a dr60 might be better to use two hans panels instead of an area 51
Its so frustrating to research this all and find out which is best for me. I just want to be confident with my purchase, because these lights arent cheap, and i just want to have the best possible chance
 
daveroller

daveroller

Well-Known Member
GroenJoe said:
Alright, im probably going to buy a light this week, but im still not 100% sure whats best for my DR60 2 plant scrog. Ive heard the sgs160 runs a fair amount warmer than the hans panels, and my ventilation isnt the best. Also karma said that a dr60 might be better to use two hans panels instead of an area 51
Its so frustrating to research this all and find out which is best for me. I just want to be confident with my purchase, because these lights arent cheap, and i just want to have the best possible chance
Click to expand...
Don't take my answer to your "shipping and voltage" question as a recommendation to go with A51 over 2 Hans Panels. I was just getting caught up and didn't see your discussion with Bad Karma until now. He's one of the experts on this, so I'd take his advice.

Edit ===============>
On the other hand, I just measured my own grow cabinet and its height is exactly the same as yours is. And I'm getting an Area 51 (arriving tomorrow!). If you keep your plant short and bushy, I don't see the problem.

What kind of ventilation do you have? As long as you keep air flowing through, the Area 51 shouldn't heat up your tent too much.
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
GroenJoe said:
Alright, im probably going to buy a light this week, but im still not 100% sure whats best for my DR60 2 plant scrog. Ive heard the sgs160 runs a fair amount warmer than the hans panels, and my ventilation isnt the best. Also karma said that a dr60 might be better to use two hans panels instead of an area 51
Its so frustrating to research this all and find out which is best for me. I just want to be confident with my purchase, because these lights arent cheap, and i just want to have the best possible chance
Click to expand...
Brother GroenJoe.I Have Run A 400 Watt Cmh In My Cab Thats 24x36x65 As Well As Leds With No Problems.The Trick Is To Veg Them To About 10 Inches High.As Far As Heat Is Concerned I Had To Put Some Cfls In My Tent Thats Running 2 Sgs's To Add Heat Didnt Want To Turn The Heat On Yet.Oh And I Also Have A 4 Inch Filter In My Cab Also
 
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