I'm pretty damn left the more I analyse it, I just oppose the "Nanny state"/"we know what's best for you" mentality that historically seems to naturally accompany it in most places.
Getting back to the "climate change" subject, is the libertarian left just expecting people and businesses to do the right thing and stop using fossil fuels? Right now, we treat air as a commons that anybody and everybody uses as a waste receptacle. Are laws and taxes to shift consumption to renewables and green tech by their authoritarian nature are bad?
I'd imagine it's socially liberal without saying "social..." and scaring people.
With you there. Socially liberal, no place for law and government to shape association, freedom to live and love how one wishes. Progressive liberal in terms of laws, regulatory polices and taxes that protect the environment, civil rights and direct industry and commerce to benefit society as a whole.
I think it's more an issue of semantics.
The grid that ty and esh like to post is useful in that regard. It illustrates the differences between people to are anti authority e.g. libertarian yet still be left or right in economic policies.
We need laws to ensure the greater good for everyone and to prevent a few from benefiting at the expense of everyone else. We aren't using our legal system well at all by this standard.
Nat Gas is cheap because of fracking. I've seen maps that show methane ppm is higher in portions of the country where fracking is in place. So, yeah, better than coal, maybe. I'm more on the "invest in renewable energy" bandwagon rather than build out a natural gas/home fuel cell electrical grid.
Agreed on all counts.
i may have over stated with thow shalt ..There have to be rules with sanctions and such to enforce regulation of anything dangerous like global warming. Not every liberal agrees as to what extent laws should be enacted or enforced, there are arguments with points of contention and agreement. not o mention the difference between a traditional liberal and a libertarian or a so-called liberal left winger or democratic party member.
so a healthy ecosystem doesn't hold up? or equal rights, fairness, freedom... these are traditional Libertarian ideals . or do you mean the Libertarian party in America ? when has it been tried instead of prevented by those at the top of the pyrimid?
I mean libertarian ideals as they apply to harvest and dumping waste. They work just fine when there is plenty of room and agreement between people living in small villages. I'd like to know where it has been tried and worked in larger societies. Even Japan, where the natural world is held sacred and the population is pretty much homogeneous, there has to be regulations to restrain natural tendencies of capitalism or large corporations to dump waste and over harvest from the environment for competitive advantage. Can you name even a middling size nation that has a libertarian zeal with a healthy environment and economy?
there are not any fully liberal societies that are nations. there are , like you said small examples allowed to exist for a time within nations or places that have adopted parts of a liberal society but even with big changes not all layers of society are addressed and there are often successes where the big change doesn't fix everything. very few places get very far due to oppression and lack of either education on change and sustainability or lack of options i.e. oppression
Seems we mostly agree, which makes for a pretty boring debate. So, I'll ask, because I'm interested if there can be a libertarian solution to fossil fuel caused global warming? I'll take the authoritarian side an say there isn't, that business competition has to be regulated to guide business practices away from carbon emissions and creatively compete using green strategies. Any ideas? Anybody?
There is a solution for everything. Many things need to be done differently. Materials need to be sourced differently. The old fossil fuel and unsustainable argoculture needs to be phased out and replaced by these solutions while more solutions are r and d'ed. if the governments we have now won't enforce this new regulation it is clear that they do not have our best interests at heart and they should be replaced.
A lot of that very kind of R&D is being done right in this forum. I know, I'm doing some of it.
