Issues With Prop 19 Solved! Now we can all Support it.

so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true... like the gov't is gonna stand by and let this shit fly... my point is, why would anybody pay taxes on MJ if that might get you prosecuted under federal law.... this debunks the "making it legal will help us with money because we can tax it" myth... because no one is gonna pay taxes on it 1. because you could get arrested and 2. its already underground so why would anybody want to give money to govt... so now that the money isnt gonna be there, and you stand to be federally prosecuted and the fact the arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a hundred dollar fine... what is really gonna change IF this passes??? seriously???

nathenking said:

so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true... like the gov't is gonna stand by and let this shit fly... my point is, why would anybody pay taxes on MJ if that might get you prosecuted under federal law.... this debunks the "making it legal will help us with money because we can tax it" myth... because no one is gonna pay taxes on it 1. because you could get arrested and 2. its already underground so why would anybody want to give money to govt... so now that the money isnt gonna be there, and you stand to be federally prosecuted and the fact the arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a hundred dollar fine... what is really gonna change IF this passes??? seriously???

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I really hope you don't vote.

Fuck this shit, let it be as it is, as said here before, it is pretty much legal anyways...if u got your legal card, u can grow your own and even get more licenses to grow more if u want to make some living out of it too..to me, it just sounds supreme, and i hope it will stay at least that way until i one day i reach to cali.The simple thing that i can grow my own herb for myself and maybe for others is my nr one dream in this life, and of course living in cali....


So why u hussle, just go and vote and see what happens...this ranting aint going to change shit in here, maybe just some local cali idiots take this shit seriously...for real, calm down, and lets light up the peace pipe....

grow space said:

Fuck this shit, let it be as it is, as said here before, it is pretty much legal anyways...if u got your legal card, u can grow your own and even get more licenses to grow more if u want to make some living out of it too..to me, it just sounds supreme, and i hope it will stay at least that way until i one day i reach to cali.The simple thing that i can grow my own herb for myself and maybe for others is my nr one dream in this life, and of course living in cali....

So why u hussle, just go and vote and see what happens...this ranting aint going to change shit in here, maybe just some local cali idiots take this shit seriously...for real, calm down, and lets light up the peace pipe....

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I didn't realize the entire United States lived in California. What do you think would of happened if Prop 215 didn't pass? A good bet would be that NO other states would have pass Medical Marijuana laws. Is it really that hard to understand that even if Prop 19 won't affect a lot of Californians It will affect the US as a whole in a much larger way? Do you want to see other states pass marijuana legalization or do you not care enough?

Is that how it is in the west? Once you've got yours, fuck everybody else? Because that is exactly what you're saying.

nathenking said:

so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true...

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You've got to stop and think about that for a second. When you start thinking of the DEA throwing growers in prison as "too good to be true", you're on the wrong side of this. It's never a good thing for anyone to be thrown in jail for growing a harmless plant. What happened to that attitude?

I really hope that Oaksterdam does start up their 4-20,000 lbs/yr factory farms in oakland... then the DEA can swoop in and bust them all at the same time!
And for anyone that doesn't think that this will be "toxic" weed, you should really do some research on Monsanto, and all the toxic shit that cigarette co. put into cigarettes that isn't needed.

I really hope that everyone voting YES on this really realizes that this is a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT... meaning that once its in, its LAW.... no turning back. We won't be able to make ANY amendments too it to "clean it up" and make it a better bill once its in.

We won't be able to vote for a better bill down the line if this goes in (like Herer's bill getting ready for 2012, which is a MUCH better bill). SB420 getting shot down and plant limits being thrown out are all the evidence you need of this....

This bill is going to get shot down pretty fast, imo. The last poll showed that more than 55% of voters are against it now. You've gotta figure that EVERYONE from far nor cal (including myself) are voting a def NO, then every grower all-throughout cali are voting a def NO, then all the people that just hate weed in general are voting a def no, and I know for a fact that most clubs and hydro shops employees are voting NO... this shit is going DOWN QUICK imo.... atleast I truly hope so.

I'm all for legalization, this is HARDLY it. I'll wait for the Hemp bill to come around in 2012, patience is a virtue... and NO I'm not a vendor, so don't use that argument that I'm greedy looking for profits.

Geez, I just can't believe that pot growers are wishing that other pot growers get busted.

You vote no people are saying the most fucked up things to make your point, which just shows that you have no point. "Supposing" what will happen does not mean anything! If the federal government doesn't like the prop, so what? Our state has over 12 percent of the US population, do you really think that the Fed will threaten us? Our laws always change the entire country, if you would pay attention.

I voted yes.

mr2shim said:

I really hope you don't vote.

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same to you.... i cant stand the look of your avatar man.... you obviously dont know the man at all... keep fronting brudda!!! Oh, and you joined this site in aug, newbie...

potroast said:

Geez, I just can't believe that pot growers are wishing that other pot growers get busted.

You vote no people are saying the most fucked up things to make your point, which just shows that you have no point. "Supposing" what will happen does not mean anything! If the federal government doesn't like the prop, so what? Our state has over 12 percent of the US population, do you really think that the Fed will threaten us? Our laws always change the entire country, if you would pay attention.

I voted yes.

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NO ONE WISHES OTHER PEOPLE GET BUSTED DUDE!!!!! ITS JUST A OUNCe..... YOU DONT GET BUSTED WITH THAT KNOW DUE TO THE NEW LAW THAT WAS SIGNED BY THE GOV..

California has the largest deficit in the nation, one of the worst illegal immigrant populations, gang violence that is out of control, etc... During these times in USA, I dont think anybody is gonna take the lead from this state.... You yes crowd might have to stop and think to yourselves here, why are so many people in and out of the MJ industry voting no???? there are lots of reasons but the main one is that this is just such a shitty bill its insulting for it to even be on the ballot.... Its doomed guys, its doomed because the lack of thought and depth that went into the bill....

potroast said:

If the federal government doesn't like the prop, so what? Our state has over 12 percent of the US population, do you really think that the Fed will threaten us?

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Especially since state/local police can't enforce the federal law and local police do not have to cooperate with the feds. The Feds will probably bust Richard Lee and a couple other big time grow ops, but they don't have the resources to go bust everyone.

nathenking said:

You yes crowd might have to stop and think to yourselves here, why are so many people in and out of the MJ industry voting no????

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Because they've already got theirs and don't want other people to interfere with their profits.

ive been arrested in utah with 60 pounds bro, on a interstate... ive did my time, you know what, if you cant do the time dont do the crime.... if anybody pays taxes on selling MJ, they are federally self incriminating themselves, which will lead to arrests because of there own incrimination.... what im trying to say is that NO ONE is going to pay taxes because of this... Hence, the whole "tax" mj so we can get out of debt is not gonna work.... there goes that point for the YES side... Oh, and the new studies that have been done that show that PROP19 will not affect Drug Cartels at all... So that debunks that Point for the YES side... Arnold signed the Bill for a hundred dollar fine for under a ounce, so that debunks the "I will go to jail if I have a ounce" point as well... Basically the only thing that your gonna be missing is the 5x5 area, WELL, GET A MED CARD AND HAVE A 20x20 area....

nathenking said:

so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true... like the gov't is gonna stand by and let this shit fly... my point is, why would anybody pay taxes on MJ if that might get you prosecuted under federal law.... this debunks the "making it legal will help us with money because we can tax it" myth... because no one is gonna pay taxes on it 1. because you could get arrested and 2. its already underground so why would anybody want to give money to govt... so now that the money isnt gonna be there, and you stand to be federally prosecuted and the fact the arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a hundred dollar fine... what is really gonna change IF this passes??? seriously???

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okay seriously dude, you need to look over your posts before you post them.. like what the fuck are you saying? does that really make sense to you up there? paying taxes and getting raided by DEA? what the fuck homie? no more peyote huh..

nathenking said:

New news guys... Obamas cabinat came out this week and said even if cali legalizes they are still going to raid and make busts through the DEA... so there you go... even if it does pass, the fed govt will with hold federal funds until the prop is abolished.... i knew this was going to happen... plus in 2012 there will be a presidential election, so the same thing is going to happen then... any president wanting to be elected in this country will have to "attack" this legalization effort to stand a chance to get elected... so for all those big warehouse grows that people are talking about, yeah right... they are gonna get raided faster than a dunkin donuts, just so obama can show that he is against it... so they will take all these peoples property, money and throw them in jail. (the people runnin the warehouses) like R. Lee.... this is gonna be crazy... watching all these capitalists that are thinking they are gonna make a buck off MJ, and then wham... they are in federal prison.... i love it... thats what you get....LOL be careful what you wish for....

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nathenking said:

here is the link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._calpot16.html

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but I am wondering about what the Obama administration said:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013175271_calpot16.html
I personally think it's a bluff as well(as the Seattle times, not nathenking) To devote all that federal resources to catch.. pot manufactures and dealers? Really? And especially since "Well over 95 percent of all marijuana arrests in this country are made by state and local law enforcement." It must be a complete bluff..

nathenking said:

NO ONE WISHES OTHER PEOPLE GET BUSTED DUDE!!!!! ITS JUST A OUNCe..... YOU DONT GET BUSTED WITH THAT KNOW DUE TO THE NEW LAW THAT WAS SIGNED BY THE GOV..

California has the largest deficit in the nation, one of the worst illegal immigrant populations, gang violence that is out of control, etc... During these times in USA, I dont think anybody is gonna take the lead from this state.... You yes crowd might have to stop and think to yourselves here, why are so many people in and out of the MJ industry voting no???? there are lots of reasons but the main one is that this is just such a shitty bill its insulting for it to even be on the ballot.... Its doomed guys, its doomed because the lack of thought and depth that went into the bill....

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nathenking said:

ive been arrested in utah with 60 pounds bro, on a interstate... ive did my time, you know what, if you cant do the time dont do the crime.... if anybody pays taxes on selling MJ, they are federally self incriminating themselves, which will lead to arrests because of there own incrimination.... what im trying to say is that NO ONE is going to pay taxes because of this... Hence, the whole "tax" mj so we can get out of debt is not gonna work.... there goes that point for the YES side... Oh, and the new studies that have been done that show that PROP19 will not affect Drug Cartels at all... So that debunks that Point for the YES side... Arnold signed the Bill for a hundred dollar fine for under a ounce, so that debunks the "I will go to jail if I have a ounce" point as well... Basically the only thing that your gonna be missing is the 5x5 area, WELL, GET A MED CARD AND HAVE A 20x20 area....

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I really think you should just STOP posting. Your reasoning is just... wrong, kindly put. And now your boasting by pretending to be the walter white of dank? Okay SERIOUSLY, the tax argument.

Damn fool, you are FUNNY.

Dan Kone said:

Tom Ammiano to the rescue again! He just wrote an assembly bill that fixes all the flaws in prop 19 if it's passed. This solve almost all of everyone's reasonable concerns with prop 19.

Makes medical patients exempt from prop 19 in every way. (no taxes on 215!)
Makes unlawfully cultivation a misdemeanor instead of a felony.
Increases limits from an ounce to a pound.
Makes possession of more than a pound a $100 fine.
Decriminalizes for those under 21.

So the problem is solved. Now we can all vote for prop 19.

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/abx6_9_bill_20100921_introduced.html

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I oppose 19, but would support if it these wordings were included. However when prop 215 passed in 1996, it took almost 7 years for SB 420. Also there is no guarantee this would even pass

[QUOTE=blazeddd;4777835]okay seriously dude, you need to look over your posts before you post them.. like what the fuck are you saying? does that really make sense to you up there? paying taxes and getting raided by DEA? what the fuck homie? no more peyote huh..


but I am wondering about what the Obama administration said:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013175271_calpot16.html
I personally think it's a bluff as well(as the Seattle times, not nathenking) To devote all that federal resources to catch.. pot manufactures and dealers? Really? And especially since "Well over 95 percent of all marijuana arrests in this country are made by state and local law enforcement." It must be a complete bluff..


I really think you should just STOP posting. Your reasoning is just... wrong, kindly put. And now your boasting by pretending to be the walter white of dank? Okay SERIOUSLY, the tax arguement
Damn fool, you are FUNNY.[/QUOTE]

To each his own bro.... Im not paying taxes on it ever, either is alot of people.... KEEP THE GOV'T OUT OF MY MJ... Its that simple bro... Ill remember this specific post from you and be the first one to say "you were niave for thinking this was gonna pass" there is no real regulation in this bill, everything is just left up in the air, ITS NOT GONNA PASS BECAUSE ITS A SHITTY BILL. THE biggest problem is you thinking that it is or will be one in the future.... NO YOUR RIGHTS BRUDDA....

nathenking said:

if anybody pays taxes on selling MJ, they are federally self incriminating themselves, which will lead to arrests because of there own incrimination.... what im trying to say is that NO ONE is going to pay taxes because of this... Hence, the whole "tax" mj so we can get out of debt is not gonna work.... there goes that point for the YES side... Arnold signed the Bill for a hundred dollar fine for under a ounce, so that debunks the "I will go to jail if I have a ounce" point as well... Basically the only thing that your gonna be missing is the 5x5 area, WELL, GET A MED CARD AND HAVE A 20x20 area....

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your sense of reason is hilarious!
people ALREADY pay taxes on marijuana. medical marijuana is taxed in Oakland, paying taxes doesn't = incrimination, especially when we legalize recreational use at the state level.
Yes on 19 is not about creating revenue for California, it is about ENDING PROHIBITION of marijuana. The money from taxes, decrease in illegal smuggling, prices, and new businesses are side benefits of ending prohibition, these are not the main reasons we support 19. We support 19 because marijuana was made illegal for racist and greedy reasons 70 years ago, the legislation is wrong and needs to be changed. It is easy to focus on the benefits of legalization because there are many but don't be confused that these are ONLY benefits and not the main goal of prop 19 and the federal legalization movement in general.

Calnorml recommends growing 6-12 plants depending on local jurisdiction, currently under 215. growing more than this can result in arrest. Prop 19's 25 sq ft space allows for much more than 6-12 plants, meaning we can grow more as recreational users than medical patients currently can legally. Being able to legally grow more marijuana is a HUGE positive to anyone that grows and ingests marijuana!!!!!
Another HUGE difference will be that we can legally profit from marijuana sales. It is currently illegal (against 215) to profit from medical marijuana sales. all of you growers on this forum that make a living from medical patients can now legally profit from recreational users instead of taking advantage of our current mmj system and exploiting patients that need marijuana by profitting from medical sales (illegal!). Patients will still have non-for profit collectives and non-patients will not have to abuse the medical system for recreational marijuana (as thousands currently are).
Decriminalization is not legalization, we need to legalize because it was made illegal for horrible reasons.

Dan Kone said:

Because they've already got theirs and don't want other people to interfere with their profits.

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I am voting NO and I am in no way making any sort of profit from growing. Infact, I'm loosing money from growing with the electric bill and all the expenses that go into a good grow-op. I just grow for personal indoors(in a 5x5 area, mind you), and I still think this is a shitty bill!

It's got bogus wording and as nathan stated, kind of leaves everything up in the air. And you never responded to me saying that its a constitutional admendment... once its in, theres NO changing it! (SB420 being thrown out in regards to 215 is proof of this).

Can't we wait 2 more years for the Cali Cannabis Hemp & Health bill comes around in 2012? http://www.youthfederation.com/ Its a MUCH better bill, and one that I think the majority of growers would even vote for (most I know will).... Because once we vote YES and let Rich Lee's bill go in; THATS IT! No turning back and there will be no changing it.

I don't think that the point is to jump on any weed related bill that comes along. This bill just seems like a "trojan horse" imo. Seems too loosey goosey to favor big business, thats all.

Wheres my Chippy? said:

I am voting NO and I am in no way making any sort of profit from growing. Infact, I'm loosing money from growing with the electric bill and all the expenses that go into a good grow-op. I just grow for personal indoors(in a 5x5 area, mind you), and I still think this is a shitty bill!

It's got bogus wording and as nathan stated, kind of leaves everything up in the air. And you never responded to me saying that its a constitutional admendment... once its in, theres NO changing it! (SB420 being thrown out in regards to 215 is proof of this).

Can't we wait 2 more years for the Cali Cannabis Hemp & Health bill comes around in 2012? http://www.youthfederation.com/ Its a MUCH better bill, and one that I think the majority of growers would even vote for (most I know will).... Because once we vote YES and let Rich Lee's bill go in; THATS IT! No turning back and there will be no changing it.

I don't think that the point is to jump on any weed related bill that comes along. This bill just seems like a "trojan horse" imo. Seems too loosey goosey to favor big business, thats all.

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If 19 favored big business and was all about corporate marijuana growing why is there allowance for personal cultivation? anyone that doesn't want to buy from big corporations doesn't have to, grow it yourself, or buy from a local small supplier....problem solved.

As for not being able to change legislation, that is absolutely wrong! Prop 8 is a perfect example... do your research and learn about how our legislative system actually works before spouting off nonsense.

Many other legalization measures had the same chances of getting on the ballot as tax, regulate and control did. not enough people signed the petitions of the other measures, why would they do it in 2012. the group that supports waiting until a better measure comes along already had a fair chance to get those measures on the ballot this year and they lost, what makes you think the Hemp and Health bill will even make it on the ballots in 2012 (a similar version was petitioned this year and failed...)?

Wheres my Chippy? said:

I am voting NO and I am in no way making any sort of profit from growing. Infact, I'm loosing money from growing with the electric bill and all the expenses that go into a good grow-op. I just grow for personal indoors(in a 5x5 area, mind you), and I still think this is a shitty bill!

It's got bogus wording and as nathan stated, kind of leaves everything up in the air. And you never responded to me saying that its a constitutional admendment... once its in, theres NO changing it! (SB420 being thrown out in regards to 215 is proof of this).

Can't we wait 2 more years for the Cali Cannabis Hemp & Health bill comes around in 2012? http://www.youthfederation.com/ Its a MUCH better bill, and one that I think the majority of growers would even vote for (most I know will).... Because once we vote YES and let Rich Lee's bill go in; THATS IT! No turning back and there will be no changing it.

I don't think that the point is to jump on any weed related bill that comes along. This bill just seems like a "trojan horse" imo. Seems too loosey goosey to favor big business, thats all.

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Exactly... Favor big business.... Thats exactly what we need in our MJ... Gov't and Big business... Fuck that... NEVER!!!!

Prop 8 was a civil rights issue, not a drug issue! Of course Prop 8 was going to get over turned, it completely violated homosexuals rights, and thats what the supreme court saw was happening, so they of course over turned it. You *can't* pass an amendment that strips minorities of their rights, because that in ITSELF is unconstitutional.

IF (and a big IF) this bill does pass, I'm sure that it probably will go to the supreme court by anti-marijuana advocates, but since this bill in no way effects civil rights of a minority it will either get overturned (like prop 8 or stay in place. What makes you think that they will bring this to the supreme court to CHANGE wording and make it a better bill? It will either be about keeping it or getting rid of it, nothing about it will change.

And the only reason Rich Lee was able to get enough signatures is because hes the biggest whore outta any of the reps of the other bills. The dude is all over high times and even NORML is supporting him, OF COURSE his bill was going to get in first. The dude has the big sob story and, most importantly, he has MONEY and lots of it.... To give an example, I'm a huge Ralph Nader supporter, but I know from the start that he doesn't have much money to tought his political stance as much as the Dem's & Republicans have, and his name & image aren't all over the news and media like the two main parties. So there really is no way "realistically" for him to ever become president (same with any third party, maybe except the Tea Party now, but I have my doubts of how "real" of a party they are and not just hardcore republicans in disguise, astro-turfing). And if you don't think that it ALL boils down to money, then you seem to not know how politics works.

And no, I don't know if it will make it on the ballot in 2012, but thats why I (and others) are trying to spread to word of the intitive, and that there are other (better) options coming up in the near future besides this poor restrictive bill.

I'm not on here looking to get into debates with people about this, because I already know that people that want to vote yes are going to vote yes (and I actually think that most won't vote at all), and those that want no are voting no (which is how I see this bill going).

Now, let me ask, in all honesty, do you think that Prop 19 is a better bill than the Hemp & Health bill? And if not, then why vote for it, and not just wait for that bill to come around?