Low yields, need some help.

hydrocropper420

Active Member
very true, my belief is that you get what you pay for, although ive seen nice plants come from $200 setup, i have a total $650 into mine all new, if someone piece together a setup off ebay,couple hundred, he already has lights and everything, all e would need is the medium and nutes among the other few items i know, and im not trying toget him to go hydro, just some ideas is all!!!!
Hydro is my preferred method. It's cleaner and easier to maintain. Not to mention cheaper (where I'm located), however this may not be the case for the OP. You don't know if he has money for air pump, stones, hose, nutes, buckets, netpots, hydrotron, peatpellets/rockwool/etc. I started in soil because it was cheap start-up and I had soil pots that would fit where DWC buckets would not. lol Point is - he doesn't necessarily need to change his method. There are cheaper alternatives to diagnose the problem than going full hydro (assuming he has zero equipment for hydro).
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Sounds like your nutes are low although pics would be helpful. If the plant fades during flowering with maybe some burn spots on leaves and then they sag and fall off, that is low nutes. If the leaves get spotty burns but are still mostly green and then crinkle up it is too much nutes. You also said you are using distilled water. EWC would help. Otherwise, calmag+ will do the trick.

It is worth the effort to dial in your fert levels. Overferted plants finish deep green and shiny often smell farmy IMO and smoke harsh burn your throat. Underferted plants smoke smooth and tasty but yield low so you have to find a happy medium. With recycled organic soil and cheapo 600 HPS I end up with .5 or .75 gr/watt of dense, bone dry overly manicured nugs. I honestly would not want bigger nugs even if it were possible. Once they get too big they can be prone to mold and the trichome quality inside is not as good IMO.

A few other things to consider. Depending on the variety too much topping can create a bush that is too bushy and can stunt the plant. It ends up shading itself out and you end up with a bunch of larf. The next thing is figuring out when to pot up and when to switch them to 12/12. If the roots have not had time to establish themselves after potting up, it is almost as if you did not pot up at all. This is especially a problem for plants that flower fast. I do my final potting up 4 weeks before flipping them or more if they are being stubborn about vegging up.

Overall I say EWC solves soil problems. Making your own worm castings is the key to the biggest harvests and the very best best dank (assuming you have dank genetics to work with). Also it is almost free because you can recycle it.

Good luck!
 

prosperian

Well-Known Member
very true, my belief is that you get what you pay for, although ive seen nice plants come from $200 setup, i have a total $650 into mine all new, if someone piece together a setup off ebay,couple hundred, he already has lights and everything, all e would need is the medium and nutes among the other few items i know, and im not trying toget him to go hydro, just some ideas is all!!!!
Oh man, I thought your setup was under $100 dollars. WTF... Just giving you shit hydro...like to get the boxer in you going!





IMO you would be better served honing your skills with your current setup rather than adding a shit ton of other variables to take control of.

The journal in my signature is a hydro journal documenting everything from res testing and adjusting to environmental aspects etc

With your current 400w if everything is dialed in you should be able to achieve 300-500g from a harvest so don't listen to those who try to convince you to change everything or add more light etc.

Learn your craft, read the plants, control environmental variables. These alone will bring you good yields.
J

OP, I wanted to let this thread marinade before responding. You have the right equipment and your expectation of 2 oz per plant is realistic. I think Jondamon has the best advice. You have a flaw somewhere in your procedures. You need to record everything you remember on paper and on your next grow do the same. It's the only way to figure out what's going on.

We are all just speculating here, hell your water could be contaminated or your temp gauges reading incorrectly. Who knows? You will get figured out, but it won't be here and after the fact.

You will find the answer by starting your next grow, recording everything, providing feedback to experienced growers, and making small recorded adjustments. I would really focus on Weeks 1-3 of flowering because I think this is where you ran into problems last time and did not create enough bud sites or development. Why, who knows? We will be there for you next time!
 

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Something else to consider is that a 400w IMO needs a decent 5" fan kicking more than 300m3/h.

With my 400w I use a 6" speed controlled 480m3/h fan.



J
 

DWCannabis

Member
Oh man, I thought your setup was under $100 dollars. WTF... Just giving you shit hydro...like to get the boxer in you going!








OP, I wanted to let this thread marinade before responding. You have the right equipment and your expectation of 2 oz per plant is realistic. I think Jondamon has the best advice. You have a flaw somewhere in your procedures. You need to record everything you remember on paper and on your next grow do the same. It's the only way to figure out what's going on.

We are all just speculating here, hell your water could be contaminated or your temp gauges reading incorrectly. Who knows? You will get figured out, but it won't be here and after the fact.

You will find the answer by starting your next grow, recording everything, providing feedback to experienced growers, and making small recorded adjustments. I would really focus on Weeks 1-3 of flowering because I think this is where you ran into problems last time and did not create enough bud sites or development. Why, who knows? We will be there for you next time!
Well said. Had I not been so stoned earlier, I probably would have asked for more details, like you said.

OP - Try to be as anal as possible going into this next grow. You know what kind of environment they need - try to make it happen. I've realized that since I've been documenting everything with the herbIQ program that my breeding projects, plant rotation and even my end results/nutrient adjustments have drastically increased. Try to get a notebook or google the Herb IQ program and use that to make notes on your grows.

So, to make it very clear:

1. Clean everything the best you can
2. Make sure your soil drains well
3. Find your nutrient manufacturer's feeding program. Loosely follow this at about 1/4 strength after you're leaving the seedling stage, then increase SLOWLY.
4. Measure temps at the canopy or slightly higher (82F is about as warm as you want to get it for most strains - which is pushing it)
5. Don't over-water. You should allow your soil to dry a little. This will depend on how well it retains water. Pick your plant/pot up without water, then water it and see the weight difference. Use this as a reference point.
6. Make sure you're using good water. The best way to make sure you're doing this is to go to the store and buy gallons of RO water. I get mine for 89 cents a gallon at the local grocery store.
7. Get a cheap grow book. Yes the internet is great and has all the information that is in that book, but I've found that having the information condensed down into a book made it a lot more understandable. You're getting information that is tried and tested, not some second hand BS that a 13 yr old kid w/ a HighTimes magazine on a grow forum.
8. Check for bugs. There are tons of pests that will KILL your yield that are rather hard to see.
9. Record everything. Write down when you germinated the seeds, when you planted them, when they popped the soil, when they've entered veg, how long they've been in veg, light schedule, when you change lights to 12/12, when they show sex, make notes about the way the leafs look, rate of growth, how tall they are, grow techniques used (FIM, topping, pinching, supercropping, etc.)
10. Be very observant. You should only have to mess with a plant 1-2 times a day. When a plant starts to become stressed, every wrong move you make puts it that much closer to death. If you don't know what is wrong with it, don't throw something at it without being fairly sure what the diagnosis is.
11. If you see problems happening, bring your recorded info to the forum w/ pics and the problem will more than likely be solved.


I mean, I yielded 113 grams in a 18in X 20in x 33in cabinet with a 150w HPS in soil with my very FIRST grow. I used chicken wire as a screen to spread the tops out. It was just some bagseed. I highly recommend using bagseed until you figure out what is holding you back. Bagseed isn't something to knock, you can end up with awesome results like I did. I wish I would have had the proper nutes and a larger pot. This was a single plant, mind you.
My second grow, I had upgraded to *almost* the same setup that I do now (400w hps), but the temps were out of control. I didn't think anything of having 87 degree temps because my mexican bagseed strain handled it so well. I figured my awesome Nirvana White Widow, Aurora Indica, and random freebies were going to rock out with their pistils out. I ended up killing over 10 plants. I made it to flower with about 5 plants and yeilded 134 grams of semi-decent B- bud. After inspection, I had a number of problems - 1.) They didn't drain well enough, so the nutes would collect in the soil. 2.) It was wayyy too hot 3.) I was overdosing them on nutrients b/c I was following the instructions. I've since learned to ease into the nutes and let your plants tell you if they need more. 4.) there was apparently a minor bug infestation because I was trying to keep the WW from flowering by taking it outside during the day and putting it in my flower room at night.


Hell, with this current grow I accidentally bleached my top leafs a little. I had my cooltube about 3in from the canopy (it's warm to the touch) because the bulb was old. Well, it went out and I replaced it with a new Hortilux. Obviously I should have backed the light off a little, but I didn't. I was sick for about 3 days, so I was only poking my head through the bottom of the tent to do hydro maintenance - I couldn't see the top of my canopy. Long story short, I bleached my beautiful ChemDawg leafs :(. You can make silly mistakes that you don't really think about even after years of growing is all I'm saying, so don't get down on yourself at all, bud!
 

DWCannabis

Member
So i have a 400w Hps for flowering and i flower at least 5 plants in this light with a 3x3x5 growroom.
My yield per plant is just 15 grams, i had one Bubblelicious from Nirvana Seeds with 30gr dry in the final but thats it.
I just want to learn how to get 2 ounces per plant or something like that...
I veg for about 1 and a half month,i top every girl to achieve more tops,my temps are 82F,i use All Mix soil by biobizz, with organic nutrients like Bio Bloom, Bio Grow,Top Max,Bio Heaven...
I put my plants in flower when they have 12 inches-15 inches.
I got a fan circulating the air inside the growroom and a 107 m3/h intake and outake 190 m3/h.
400w hps with an adjust a wings reflector.
Try to grow them without topping next round, too. I did this with a 400w in soil and rocked a solid 1.5-2.0oz/plant on 6 plants in a 2x3x5 room. I did FIM, but I didn't top because I didn't want to slow down growth. Some plants yield less when topped. Sorry I'm posting so much, I just keep trying to diagnose this because I keep thinking of mistakes I've made. haha I'll let someone else chime in now.
 
It has to be your temps and/or nutrients. I grow in a 2x3x5 w/ a 400w or a 600w (depending on the plants/canopy/time of year/blah blah blah). My preferred method is obviously DWC just because I find that it is the easiest medium to control.

Now, with that being said I have 2 grows under my belt where I used organics/soil next to my DWC systems. I stopped doing it due to bug problems, but that is a different story. Anyways, just using the 1-part flora(It was given to me) + some calmag I was able to pull 1.5-2 oz per plant using Nirvana's Blackjack, Bubblicious, and Aurora Indica with very little effort. I've grown all different types of plants in my very limited space using various methods, so anything is possible. I typically only flower 2-3 plants at a time in DWC, usually in the 3-5oz/each range. Normally grown from seed w/ around 6wks veg under low power CFLS and 1 week under HID... then however many weeks the particular strain needs for flower.

If I were you, I'd 1.)clean my grow area the best that I could (I've had some weird funk get on the walls of my tent that killed plants. It looked like a film.) and find a way to cool that bitch down the best you can. If you are strapped for cash and want to try different nutes, go the Lucas Formula route - it's the cheapest up-front cost, and works like a charm. Do you have any pictures of the plants while they were growing? I'm sorry if this has been said/asked. I didn't read every comment in the thread. If this stuff has been addressed, disregard that. haha
I have 1 Aurora Indica in flowering at week 4 right now, i had some in the past and wow,strong body effect,strong smell...but you already know that,am i right? :hump: ahah
I Can take some pictures ,do you prefer in veg or flowering?
 
Well said. Had I not been so stoned earlier, I probably would have asked for more details, like you said.

OP - Try to be as anal as possible going into this next grow. You know what kind of environment they need - try to make it happen. I've realized that since I've been documenting everything with the herbIQ program that my breeding projects, plant rotation and even my end results/nutrient adjustments have drastically increased. Try to get a notebook or google the Herb IQ program and use that to make notes on your grows.

So, to make it very clear:

1. Clean everything the best you can
2. Make sure your soil drains well
3. Find your nutrient manufacturer's feeding program. Loosely follow this at about 1/4 strength after you're leaving the seedling stage, then increase SLOWLY.
4. Measure temps at the canopy or slightly higher (82F is about as warm as you want to get it for most strains - which is pushing it)
5. Don't over-water. You should allow your soil to dry a little. This will depend on how well it retains water. Pick your plant/pot up without water, then water it and see the weight difference. Use this as a reference point.
6. Make sure you're using good water. The best way to make sure you're doing this is to go to the store and buy gallons of RO water. I get mine for 89 cents a gallon at the local grocery store.
7. Get a cheap grow book. Yes the internet is great and has all the information that is in that book, but I've found that having the information condensed down into a book made it a lot more understandable. You're getting information that is tried and tested, not some second hand BS that a 13 yr old kid w/ a HighTimes magazine on a grow forum.
8. Check for bugs. There are tons of pests that will KILL your yield that are rather hard to see.
9. Record everything. Write down when you germinated the seeds, when you planted them, when they popped the soil, when they've entered veg, how long they've been in veg, light schedule, when you change lights to 12/12, when they show sex, make notes about the way the leafs look, rate of growth, how tall they are, grow techniques used (FIM, topping, pinching, supercropping, etc.)
10. Be very observant. You should only have to mess with a plant 1-2 times a day. When a plant starts to become stressed, every wrong move you make puts it that much closer to death. If you don't know what is wrong with it, don't throw something at it without being fairly sure what the diagnosis is.
11. If you see problems happening, bring your recorded info to the forum w/ pics and the problem will more than likely be solved.


I mean, I yielded 113 grams in a 18in X 20in x 33in cabinet with a 150w HPS in soil with my very FIRST grow. I used chicken wire as a screen to spread the tops out. It was just some bagseed. I highly recommend using bagseed until you figure out what is holding you back. Bagseed isn't something to knock, you can end up with awesome results like I did. I wish I would have had the proper nutes and a larger pot. This was a single plant, mind you.
My second grow, I had upgraded to *almost* the same setup that I do now (400w hps), but the temps were out of control. I didn't think anything of having 87 degree temps because my mexican bagseed strain handled it so well. I figured my awesome Nirvana White Widow, Aurora Indica, and random freebies were going to rock out with their pistils out. I ended up killing over 10 plants. I made it to flower with about 5 plants and yeilded 134 grams of semi-decent B- bud. After inspection, I had a number of problems - 1.) They didn't drain well enough, so the nutes would collect in the soil. 2.) It was wayyy too hot 3.) I was overdosing them on nutrients b/c I was following the instructions. I've since learned to ease into the nutes and let your plants tell you if they need more. 4.) there was apparently a minor bug infestation because I was trying to keep the WW from flowering by taking it outside during the day and putting it in my flower room at night.


Hell, with this current grow I accidentally bleached my top leafs a little. I had my cooltube about 3in from the canopy (it's warm to the touch) because the bulb was old. Well, it went out and I replaced it with a new Hortilux. Obviously I should have backed the light off a little, but I didn't. I was sick for about 3 days, so I was only poking my head through the bottom of the tent to do hydro maintenance - I couldn't see the top of my canopy. Long story short, I bleached my beautiful ChemDawg leafs :(. You can make silly mistakes that you don't really think about even after years of growing is all I'm saying, so don't get down on yourself at all, bud!

Thank you for all the help! Im gonna do all that ;-)
 
Try to grow them without topping next round, too. I did this with a 400w in soil and rocked a solid 1.5-2.0oz/plant on 6 plants in a 2x3x5 room. I did FIM, but I didn't top because I didn't want to slow down growth. Some plants yield less when topped. Sorry I'm posting so much, I just keep trying to diagnose this because I keep thinking of mistakes I've made. haha I'll let someone else chime in now.

You can post 1000 times if you want!
Im happy to read all the posts,i really like to learn new things :)
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
What size pots are the plants in as root size will determine alot. I would assume something like 5 gallon pots for so few plants. If using smaller then the roots bind and chock themselves off and get root bound so little up take so poor outcome.
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
I use a 400w hps.

I grow in coco and use the following.

CANNA AQUA VEGA 6-3-8 NPK
CANNA RHIZOTONIC
CANNA MONO CALCIUM
CANNA MONO MAGNESIUM
CANNA PK1314
GROWTH TECHNOLOGY LIQUID SILICON

I grow 4x2ft plants and harvest around 4oz per plant.

If I use clones they get around 2-3weeks veg time, topped.

My plants are ALWAYS green at harvest time.

Yellow plants or burnt leaves etc slows down growth.

I use 11L pots.


Work on keeping your plants healthy with a finishing height around 2ft tall and yields will follow.



J
I suggest you follow this lead and research growing in coco. If you setup a fast draining coco media (I use coco chips and growstones\hydroton in large net pots, others use coco fiber for a finer media) you will have some of the advantages of soil. high CEC Bufferring capability and holds nutrients, water. But with the high drainage you can treat it as much like a hydro system as you want since the roots will get a lot of air. Being able to water frequently, unlike in soil, I can ensure that a fresh supply of balanced nutes are always available.
 

hydrocropper420

Active Member
LOL i seen that comin Pros, im 32 now, its been 8 years since i broke a nose LOL,!!!!!I only weigh 170lbs, not a big guy at all, 5'10''LOL but its fun to get in the ring!!!!
Oh man, I thought your setup was under $100 dollars. WTF... Just giving you shit hydro...like to get the boxer in you going!








OP, I wanted to let this thread marinade before responding. You have the right equipment and your expectation of 2 oz per plant is realistic. I think Jondamon has the best advice. You have a flaw somewhere in your procedures. You need to record everything you remember on paper and on your next grow do the same. It's the only way to figure out what's going on.

We are all just speculating here, hell your water could be contaminated or your temp gauges reading incorrectly. Who knows? You will get figured out, but it won't be here and after the fact.

You will find the answer by starting your next grow, recording everything, providing feedback to experienced growers, and making small recorded adjustments. I would really focus on Weeks 1-3 of flowering because I think this is where you ran into problems last time and did not create enough bud sites or development. Why, who knows? We will be there for you next time!
 

dicknixon

Active Member
need more info. on average how far from the canopy is your light? how much water do you feed them? what kind of containers [volume, type]? that 12-15" of growth.. how many nodes per main branch do you usually achieve in that 12-15" [how much distance between each node]?
 

dicknixon

Active Member
also, get a fan that circulates air across the top of the canopy (in between the light and canopy) if you don't already have one... that can make a HUGE difference
 
Yes i have one... :)
The light is 1 foot from the top of the canopy,i give them the water i think they need...
12.5 L and 16 L.
Usually 3 i think,i dont know the exactly distance :roll:
 

gagekko

Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think the 2-3 veg time for clones is long enough after being topped... Some strains take longer to come back from being topped than others. Unless I'm misunderstanding... You put the clone in the ground, top it, and give it only 2-3 weeks before going to flower?

In soil I think a plant needs a couple of week to grab hold and get use to the new media - about 2-3 week. Then top... Then need rebound time about 2-3 weeks... Then it is veg'd as long as necessary to get to the desired height.

Please correct me if I am wrong in understanding your process.
 

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think the 2-3 veg time for clones is long enough after being topped... Some strains take longer to come back from being topped than others. Unless I'm misunderstanding... You put the clone in the ground, top it, and give it only 2-3 weeks before going to flower?

In soil I think a plant needs a couple of week to grab hold and get use to the new media - about 2-3 week. Then top... Then need rebound time about 2-3 weeks... Then it is veg'd as long as necessary to get to the desired height.

Please correct me if I am wrong in understanding your process.
I'm presuming you mean me?

I've currently got a grow thread on here showing what I'm doing.

I received my current clones at 5" tall and had been rooted a few days. I then gave them 1.5weeks veg then topped.

I they then received another few days veg (5 or so) to develop lower growth. Selected 4 main branches to keep and removed everything else.

I tied the now 4 leaders to bamboo stakes. Flipped them to flower and trimmed off lower growth.

Here's a link if you want to read.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/614911-my-grow-room-some-cheese.html

I'm trying to see if I can beat the clone suppliers best average of 4.3oz per plant under 400w with 4 plants under the light.

Its gonna be a tough challenge as the supplier uses 3x400w with good crossover footprints.

His best yield was 53oz from his 3x400w after I helped him correct his environmental variables.


J
 

gagekko

Well-Known Member
I'm presuming you mean me?

I've currently got a grow thread on here showing what I'm doing.

I received my current clones at 5" tall and had been rooted a few days. I then gave them 1.5weeks veg then topped.

I they then received another few days veg (5 or so) to develop lower growth. Selected 4 main branches to keep and removed everything else.

I tied the now 4 leaders to bamboo stakes. Flipped them to flower and trimmed off lower growth.

Here's a link if you want to read.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/614911-my-grow-room-some-cheese.html

I'm trying to see if I can beat the clone suppliers best average of 4.3oz per plant under 400w with 4 plants under the light.

Its gonna be a tough challenge as the supplier uses 3x400w with good crossover footprints.

His best yield was 53oz from his 3x400w after I helped him correct his environmental variables.


J
Cool, I'm gonna check it out. Those are some wayyy impressive digits! 4.3 x 4 on a 400? I'd be happy at 50 of that!
 

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Yes do check it out.

I did try to push them a little hard using PK1314 for nearly 4 weeks at full strength when I shouldn't have lol.

They're still looking good though for at least 3.5oz per plant.

J
 
Top