No idea what's going on with these leaves
- Thread starter chasingwaterfalls
- Start date
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
here's the product that i'm currently using. not quite the same as the Pond-Zyme. this one is enzymes for sure.
http://www.carefreeenzymes.com/products/birding/fountains/fountain-protector/
http://www.carefreeenzymes.com/products/birding/fountains/fountain-protector/
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
yeah, i think you are right. the pond zyme is BB with the barley. the fountain protector is just enzymes.
i'm thinking if they can keep either a pond or a water fountain clean, they should work fine in hydro. and safe for fish/plants too.
polishpollack
Well-Known Member
chasingwaterfalls, discuss your air temps when lights are on and off, and what grow light are you using? What's the wattage and how close is it to the plants? Do you have a fan in the grow tent?
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
@chasingwaterfalls
i'm just about done with my grow with the FN bloom. my max dose was only 3mL/gallon. in RO water, my EC was 0.95
cut your nutes in half and see how the plant reacts for the next week.
how much Silica are you using?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
I prefer to spray silica on occasion, its actually more effective and provides more benefits when sprayed
and
this way it doesn't affect the or mess up the cation/balance K:Ca:Mg in the reservior
the flora nova has enough K in it (relatively balanced) and if you over do it on the silica (which adds K) you can also end up with magnesium lockout/def
and
this way it doesn't affect the or mess up the cation/balance K:Ca:Mg in the reservior
the flora nova has enough K in it (relatively balanced) and if you over do it on the silica (which adds K) you can also end up with magnesium lockout/def
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i've been experimenting a bit with foliars but just fulvic acid. never thought of trying Si. so how often do you spray? and do you spray during stretch phase and then stop when flowers form?
and use like 2mL/gal as your mix?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
id have to know how much Si and K % is in your bottle to give you a comparison
I use potassium silicate powder
1 to 1.25 grams per gallon combined with 1 oz azamax or neem oil
typically I spray it every 2 weeks but I have sprayed it as often as every 3 days, but by the 3rd application it starts to show as too much when sprayed that frequently...
it treats for both PM and bugs
if your product is similar to silica blast which I believe is 0.5% K and 2%Si then 30mls per gallon would be about the same as my 1.25 grams of potassium silicate powder
id start out at 20mls and spray that 1 or 2x until you get comfortable with its response on your plants before raising it up to 30mls
note;; it is very important to realize
your not suppose to ph adjust the spray solution.... its meant to be high... that's how it works to prevent PM... same idea as using greencure only without the sodium you get from greencure
im4satori
Well-Known Member
one more thing;
when you spray it, a few days later you plants might show some mild magnesium def (taco leaf)... I just ignore it, usually itll correct itself provided the nutrient has enough Mg in it
plus the bottled silica usually has a lower K content than my potassium silicate so its less likely to affect the Mg
but if it bothers you, you could follow up with another spray of Epsom salt a few days behind the SI
I don't spray anything after week 3 of 12/12
when you spray it, a few days later you plants might show some mild magnesium def (taco leaf)... I just ignore it, usually itll correct itself provided the nutrient has enough Mg in it
plus the bottled silica usually has a lower K content than my potassium silicate so its less likely to affect the Mg
but if it bothers you, you could follow up with another spray of Epsom salt a few days behind the SI
I don't spray anything after week 3 of 12/12
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chasingwaterfalls
Active Member
Oof, I figured I was fine as long as I stayed under the recommended feeding levels on GH's feeding schedule. Ever since the issue started, I haven't been feeding. Back down to 300 ppm (still haven't gotten an EC meter
), but I believe this is under 3ml/gal. I've also only added silica twice (during the last two res changes), so I'm planning on adding more with my next change. Added 3ml a gal both times.My air temps have been min 68, max 80 (just going off of the ranges on my digital thermometer). I got one small oscillating fan near plant level and a exhaust fan taking air from the top. The tent walls slightly cave in from the pressure differential.
Using an LED light (prefab - advanced led xte300), and it's at about 2/3 power now, 200w. I've kept it the same height the entire grow so far, about 30 in from the plants away at this point. I keep it far away because I hadn't really seen excessive stretching in the past.
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
have you started a daily log for your EC/PPM and PH?
this would be a great tool for you to find the appropriate level of fertilizer to feed
if the EC/ppm goes down and the PH goes up, consider raising the EC/PPM
if the EC/PPM goes up and or the PH goes down, lower the EC/PPM
ideally your EC/PPM will drop slowly and your PH will rise slowly, the quicker is rises the more likely they'll want a higher EC/PPM
but youll need to also take into account reservoir size vs canopy.
a smaller reservoir will change quicker and a larger reservoir will change more slowly but over time with a log youll get a feel for it
this would be a great tool for you to find the appropriate level of fertilizer to feed
if the EC/ppm goes down and the PH goes up, consider raising the EC/PPM
if the EC/PPM goes up and or the PH goes down, lower the EC/PPM
ideally your EC/PPM will drop slowly and your PH will rise slowly, the quicker is rises the more likely they'll want a higher EC/PPM
but youll need to also take into account reservoir size vs canopy.
a smaller reservoir will change quicker and a larger reservoir will change more slowly but over time with a log youll get a feel for it
polishpollack
Well-Known Member
so your thermometer only goes up to 80? if so, then you don't really know how warm it gets inside the grow tent. what you have there looks more like either heat damage or perhaps wind burn. it can be wind burn if the leaves are getting struck directly by fan wind. I don't think you have pathogens. if you don't see any slime in your water, then you don't have algae (which is a common problem in hydro). algae is a pathogen, a disease causing organism. if you have slime in the water or on the roots, then you have algae and it can be one of different colors like brown, green, or even without color and looks like clear snot.
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
chasingwaterfalls
Active Member
Haven't seen any slime yet, thankfully. I had gotten warped/wilting leaves that I cut off once they got bad - my earlier pics still have them.
And yes, it's a digital thermometer that shows peak max and min temp. I never check on the plants in the middle of the night, so I'm taking the min. temp on blind faith. I also have an analog thermometer sitting on top of my light that hovers around 80f when the light is on.
polishpollack
Well-Known Member
You might have a heat problem. 80 above the light doesn't tell you what the temp is at plant canopy, although it might not be much different. The warmth of the light rays might be too hot on the leaves. The damage you have in the pics looks more like heat damage or wind burn than anything else. If it's 80 above the light, it's probably warmer on the leaves themselves which is probably too warm. Remember that light is absorbed by an object, converted to heat and radiated off the object. Leaves are fragile and if they load up with too much heat the tissue will die.
chasingwaterfalls
Active Member
Sorry for being unclear - I have an analog thermometer sitting on top of my light, and one digital thermometer at plant level. The analog up top stays around 80f during the day, and the digital down below shows similar temps as well. Since the digital thermometer also saves recent min. and max. temperature, I'm guessing that the temperature during lights off goes down to 68f.
In any case, I'll work on lowering temps - I'll probably start with turning down the light a bit (it's got dimmer switches).
im4satori
Well-Known Member
80 degrees for your high temp this time of years isn't bad at all.. just make sure your lights are too close
something you might find interesting about day and night temps... I will post it next
im4satori
Well-Known Member
Day-Night Temperatures
For the majority of flowering and fruiting plants produced hydroponically, plant growth and flowering will be optimal under conditions where the night temperature is lower than the day temperature. Most plant species exhibit these 'Diurnal rhythms' where certain plant process such as the rate of growth of the flower buds, stomata opening, discharge of perfume from flowers, cell division and metabolic activity, occur more rapidly at a certain time within a 24 hour period. For example, photosynthesis in most plants is known to reach a maximum just before noon, and cell division also seems to always reach a maximum just before dawn. Many species flower or grow well only when temperatures during the part of the diurnal cycle that normally comes at night are lower than temperatures during the day. Also light given during the normal night period may actually inhibit some plant processes.
Plants such as tomatoes seem to be particularly sensitive to the alternation in temperature between day and night: they produce more flowers when night temperatures are lower than day temperatures - this effect in plants is called 'Thermoperiodism', and is common amongst many plant species. Pepper plants also require lower night than day temperatures for good production, it has been found that many more buds on pepper plants will actually develop into open flowers when night temperatures are at least 6 C(11F) lower than day temperatures. Where day and night temperatures remain at similar levels on a long term basis, flowering and fruiting can be adversely affected, particularly where temperatures are warm. Bud, flower and fruitlet abscission is much more common on crops which do not receive lower night temperatures and this often limits production of crops such as tomatoes and peppers under tropical conditions.
Night temperatures for most plants are optimal at around 18 C (65F) too 24 C(75F) lower than day temperatures, provided day temperatures are held at optimal levels for photosynthesis. At night, where the 'sinks' which receive the assimilates (sugars) produced via photosynthesis, become cooler, transport of sugars into these is promoted. 'Sinks' on most plants are the developing flower buds, flowers and fruit which have the greatest affinity for the sugars produced by the plant. The 'Source' is the producer of the assimilates - usually the leaves, but sometimes also the stem in some plant species. So cooler 'sinks' get more assimilate pumped into them at night than if they remained as warm as they were during the day light hours.
Apart from the physiological effects on plant growth and flower development, having a lower night temperature setting has other beneficial effects on plant processes. Firstly root pressure is greater at night under cooler conditions - this increases the pressure in the xylem vessels, so that calcium and other plant growth compounds which are carried in the xylem stream are forced out to the leaf tips and into developing buds, flowers and fruits. This turgor pressure is often essential in the prevention of tip burn as it ensures calcium is carried to the very edges of the leaves. Often, this root or xylem pressure can be seen in the form of 'guttation' which are visible droplets of water which can be seen at the tips of leaves on plants in the early morning. It is this root or xylem pressure which also acts to 'pump up' the plant during the cooler night temperatures particularly after a day when transpiration rates and warm temperatures have resulted in some wilting and loss of turgour.
Maintaining cooler night temperatures also ensures that plant respiration does not occur at too greater rate. Respiration uses up valuable assimilates and the rate of respiration increases rapidly with temperature. Under very warm night temperature conditions, night respiration can burn nearly as much assimilate as has been produced via photosynthesis and can severely limit plant growth.
For the majority of flowering and fruiting plants produced hydroponically, plant growth and flowering will be optimal under conditions where the night temperature is lower than the day temperature. Most plant species exhibit these 'Diurnal rhythms' where certain plant process such as the rate of growth of the flower buds, stomata opening, discharge of perfume from flowers, cell division and metabolic activity, occur more rapidly at a certain time within a 24 hour period. For example, photosynthesis in most plants is known to reach a maximum just before noon, and cell division also seems to always reach a maximum just before dawn. Many species flower or grow well only when temperatures during the part of the diurnal cycle that normally comes at night are lower than temperatures during the day. Also light given during the normal night period may actually inhibit some plant processes.
Plants such as tomatoes seem to be particularly sensitive to the alternation in temperature between day and night: they produce more flowers when night temperatures are lower than day temperatures - this effect in plants is called 'Thermoperiodism', and is common amongst many plant species. Pepper plants also require lower night than day temperatures for good production, it has been found that many more buds on pepper plants will actually develop into open flowers when night temperatures are at least 6 C(11F) lower than day temperatures. Where day and night temperatures remain at similar levels on a long term basis, flowering and fruiting can be adversely affected, particularly where temperatures are warm. Bud, flower and fruitlet abscission is much more common on crops which do not receive lower night temperatures and this often limits production of crops such as tomatoes and peppers under tropical conditions.
Night temperatures for most plants are optimal at around 18 C (65F) too 24 C(75F) lower than day temperatures, provided day temperatures are held at optimal levels for photosynthesis. At night, where the 'sinks' which receive the assimilates (sugars) produced via photosynthesis, become cooler, transport of sugars into these is promoted. 'Sinks' on most plants are the developing flower buds, flowers and fruit which have the greatest affinity for the sugars produced by the plant. The 'Source' is the producer of the assimilates - usually the leaves, but sometimes also the stem in some plant species. So cooler 'sinks' get more assimilate pumped into them at night than if they remained as warm as they were during the day light hours.
Apart from the physiological effects on plant growth and flower development, having a lower night temperature setting has other beneficial effects on plant processes. Firstly root pressure is greater at night under cooler conditions - this increases the pressure in the xylem vessels, so that calcium and other plant growth compounds which are carried in the xylem stream are forced out to the leaf tips and into developing buds, flowers and fruits. This turgor pressure is often essential in the prevention of tip burn as it ensures calcium is carried to the very edges of the leaves. Often, this root or xylem pressure can be seen in the form of 'guttation' which are visible droplets of water which can be seen at the tips of leaves on plants in the early morning. It is this root or xylem pressure which also acts to 'pump up' the plant during the cooler night temperatures particularly after a day when transpiration rates and warm temperatures have resulted in some wilting and loss of turgour.
Maintaining cooler night temperatures also ensures that plant respiration does not occur at too greater rate. Respiration uses up valuable assimilates and the rate of respiration increases rapidly with temperature. Under very warm night temperature conditions, night respiration can burn nearly as much assimilate as has been produced via photosynthesis and can severely limit plant growth.