No idea what's going on with these leaves

im4satori

Well-Known Member
another copy and paste;


"Fine-tuning temperature and water for maximum quantity and quality.

Why waste light and electricity growing stem? Stretched-out plants are the bane of indoor growers. There are several ways to reduce internodal length and thus grow denser, more efficient buds.


Temperature control

The easiest and most under-used way to control internodal stretch is temperature control. Plant internodal length is directly related to the difference between day and night temperatures – the warmer your day cycle is as compared to your night cycle, the greater your internode length will be. The opposite also holds true; the closer your day and night temperatures, the shorter your internodes will be. Ever notice how as the warmer summer months approach, your plants begin to stretch? Part of this problem may lie in an overall hotter grow-room, but a larger factor is the increased difference between day and night temperatures.

Lets look at putting this to play in your grow room. Maximum temperatures should ideally never rise above 78.8°F, so you must do everything you can to prevent your room getting too hot (run lights at night, use exhaust fans, air conditioners, etc). An ideal temperature range is 75-77°F when the lights are on, and 71°F when the lights are off.

The temperature technique is most effective under a 12/12 light regime, which is ideal as this is when cannabis stretches the most. When the light cycle is brought to 12/12 we will raise the night temperature to the daytime level of 75-77°F. Space heaters on timers work well for this, and max/min type thermometers are ideal for
tracking temperatures.

It is during the first 2-3 weeks of the flower cycle that most strains begin to lengthen internodes, making it a very important time to control temperature, as this is when the framework for future colas is built. After this 2-3 week window we need to drop the night temperature back down to 71°F, as this is where the plant is happiest.


As floral development begins we need to keep in mind that the total size of your buds is determined largely by average daily temperature, provided it does not exceed optimal. So if you are letting your day temperatures drop below 75°F or your night drop below 71°F, you are costing yourself in overall weight and harvest.

Once your buds have reached optimal size and and you have begun the flushing period, you may consider dropping temperature down to 62-66 F for the final week or two. This drop in temperature triggers anthocyanin production, which intensifies the color of the floral clusters and makes for a showier bud, especially with "purple" varieties. This final temperature change is not always feasible and can be omitted.

For extreme height control you may even use warmer night temperature than day, but be very careful when running settings like this, as even a zero difference between night and day temperatures will lead to leaf chlorosis (yellowing) after 2-3 weeks.

Some things you will notice while using this technique are a change in the leaf angle, upwards during warm days and downwards during warm nights. There is also the chlorosis if this is done for too long. Neither of these symptoms is nutrient related and will fix themselves when the temperature is changed back.


Moisture and conductivity

Whether you're growing hydro or in soil, the electrical conductivity (EC) and moisture of your medium are two key elements that should be manipulated to meet your needs. Both of these factors are controlling the same thing; the ability of a plant to uptake water and nutrients from the growth medium. (EC measures the level of fertilizer salts in the water.)

A plant grows by first dividing cells then expanding them, and in order to do this it requires water. By limiting the amount of water available to a plant you limit the expansion of cells. This can work for you by keeping your internodes close together, or against you by limiting bud growth. Both the amount of water you give your plants and the EC at which you grow them control the uptake of water.

A plant's roots act much like a pump, using osmotic pressure to move water into the plant. In order for this to work there must be a larger concentration of fertilizer salts in the plant's roots than in the soil or hydroponic solution, so when the medium's level of salt rises above the roots', the plant will wilt. Raising the salt level in the medium closer to that which is in the roots limits the water availability just the same as if we had provided less water.

During the vegetative stage we want our plants to form very tight internodes, especially under artificial lighting. By allowing the EC to drop below ideal during this stage we are wasting valuable space growing stem instead of bud. Most marijuana strains are happiest when grown at an EC of between 1.5 and 1.8, but different strains have different preferences. Try growing one of your plants using straight water for a week or so, you will see the internode length stretch dramatically compared to the ones on a regular fertilizer regime.


Hydroponic tomato growers sometimes will grow their transplants at extremely high EC's (up to 6 EC!) in order to get really nice stocky production plants. Please note that when doing this they use special nutrient formulas designed for this purpose, most of which have potassium to nitrogen ratios of 4:1, much higher than normal, as too much nitrate at this high an EC will easily damage a plant.

(Try this formula if you're interested: calcium nitrate 7 grams, potassium nitrate 0.095 grams, potassium sulphate 9.25 grams, mono potassium phosphate 2.2 gram, magnesium sulphate 5 grams, micromix .02 grams. Slowly raise your EC during veg stage, I would not recommend going above 3 or 4 EC. This is experimental! Do not try on all of your plants at once until you are sure your strain can handle it. All of these ingredients should be available at your local hydroponics store, it is usually called "six pack formula". Be sure to bring your EC back down once you enter floral stage, by the time tufts of pistils are visible you want to be at your ideal EC of 1.5-1.8.)

Try not to change the EC too quickly as a sharp drop can cause root damage. This also goes during your final flushing period when you want to eliminate all fertilizer from the medium – lower the EC over a couple of days, as the sudden change in salt level will harm the roots.

When growing hydroponically, the only way of manipulating water availability is with the EC, while in soil we may also use the moisture level of the medium to the same ends. Many growers are under the mistaken impression that the EC and pH of their nutrient solution remains the same when applied to the soil. This in not the case, and you must test the soil in order to have a true
picture.


To test your soil, take a sample from the center of the root zone at the side of the pot (don't worry the torn roots will be fine). Mix the soil with 2 equal parts distilled water and let sit for 20 minutes. Once the time is up take an EC reading and multiply this number by 2.4 (this takes into account the dilution and the pore space factor) this will give you an accurate picture of the EC the roots are actually being exposed to. The pH should also be checked at this time. It is not feasible in soil to maintain an exact EC at all times, what we need to try and avoid is EC's climbing much above what we want and plants going for long periods with very low EC's.

A frequent mistake marijuana growers make is over-emphasizing the need for a plant grown in soil to dry out completely between waterings. Cannabis does like dry feet but this simply means that the root zone must not be kept extremely wet at all times. Keep in mind that if the soil has an EC of 1.8 and then dries out completely the amount of salt remains the same, causing the EC to double or more.

As a general rule, during the vegetative stage you should keep your plants a little on the drier side as this will restrict cell elongation, creating a shorter noded plant structure capable of creating a dense bud cluster in the floral stage. (Unless of course you are using the high EC method described above, in this case you must not let your soil get too dry because of the increased fertilizer level you will create.) Maintain this level of moisture into the first 14 to 20 days of 12/12 to minimize internode stretch.

As soon as early flowering begins you need to increase soil moisture to a nice evenly moist (not soaked) level to maximize bud expansion. Growing marijuana too dry during this stage will adversely affect your overall yield, as will having too high an EC in the medium.

In these times of government oppression we must make the most efficient use of available growing space in order to produce the copious amounts of cannabis necessary to overflow the boundaries placed upon us. Control your cannabis!"
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
I run a dehumidifier during light out

it keeps the humidity low during the night to prevent pests and it also puts heat in the room so the day and night temps are about the same

hopefully later in the season as the ambient humidity drops I wont need the humidifier during lights out

but I will still use it during the first two weeks of 12/12 stretch
 

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
I run a dehumidifier during light out

it keeps the humidity low during the night to prevent pests and it also puts heat in the room so the day and night temps are about the same

hopefully later in the season as the ambient humidity drops I wont need the humidifier during lights out

but I will still use it during the first two weeks of 12/12 stretch
I actually got a humidifier on, just to maintain 55%-60% rh, so I've never thought to use a dehumidifier at night. I'm not sure if I got the right ambient conditions to use a dehumidifier, but I like the idea

I've also read that a temperature differential between night and day is helpful, think the same article that was quoted
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
I actually got a humidifier on, just to maintain 55%-60% rh, so I've never thought to use a dehumidifier at night. I'm not sure if I got the right ambient conditions to use a dehumidifier, but I like the idea

I've also read that a temperature differential between night and day is helpful, think the same article that was quoted
I live where its humid so ya for you having low humidty it would be different

but they do make humidifiers that put out warmth and some run cool
 

Naija

Active Member
I live where the humidity outdoors is 70%-90% and it's been a pain in the ass to get it to drop to 40%-50%, at first I used an air conditioner and it works fine when lights are on, the temperature inside the tent is always between 76-80 and humidity ranging from 55%-60%..

now before relocating the tent to its new place the room wasn't 100% sealed I had some gaps under the door, however the temp and humidity would remain within the range but on the lower side when the lights go off.

At the new location I have the tent in a 100% sealed room with zero air escape in or out the room, I still use the air conditioner and no problems when lights are ON, however to my shock the problem I had was when the lights go off, temp will reduce to 68-70 and humidity JUMPED to 67%-70%... Now this left me scratching my head and got to a logical conclusion that with a sealed room and lights OFF the air gets as cold as the AC coils hence no condensation will happen which will lead to humidity adding up, so the next day when I put the lights off I borrowed my wife's hair dryer and turned on while the AC is on, this add a bit odd heat to the air before returning to the AC coils and humidity actually dropped.

Might be off topic but I thought to share lol
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
I live where the humidity outdoors is 70%-90% and it's been a pain in the ass to get it to drop to 40%-50%, at first I used an air conditioner and it works fine when lights are on, the temperature inside the tent is always between 76-80 and humidity ranging from 55%-60%..

now before relocating the tent to its new place the room wasn't 100% sealed I had some gaps under the door, however the temp and humidity would remain within the range but on the lower side when the lights go off.

At the new location I have the tent in a 100% sealed room with zero air escape in or out the room, I still use the air conditioner and no problems when lights are ON, however to my shock the problem I had was when the lights go off, temp will reduce to 68-70 and humidity JUMPED to 67%-70%... Now this left me scratching my head and got to a logical conclusion that with a sealed room and lights OFF the air gets as cold as the AC coils hence no condensation will happen which will lead to humidity adding up, so the next day when I put the lights off I borrowed my wife's hair dryer and turned on while the AC is on, this add a bit odd heat to the air before returning to the AC coils and humidity actually dropped.

Might be off topic but I thought to share lol
that's exactly why i run a dehumidifier when lights are out... it adds heat and reduces humidity during the lights out

in my case, I don't use an a/c

I vent from outside ... during the winter when humidity is low its not an issue

in your case the a/c isn't running during lights out so its not removing the humidity during that time and since the room is sealed theres zero air flow so the plants transpire and the moisture is trapped

when your a/c runs it removes the humidity for you.. the harder or longer or more often it runs the more humidity it draws out of the air... this is why you don't over size the a/c unit in your house by too much..when you build a home
if the a/c unit cools the house quick and then stops running quick it doesn't run long enough to remove the humidity, so an overly sized unit will create a cold damp house

the harder you run the a/c the lower your humidity will get... if you add another light your a/c will work harder and lower the humidity during lights on
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
another option for you would be to hook up a fan to exhaust with a baffle and only run it during light out.... if/when your ambient humidity is low enough to do it
 

Buba Blend

Well-Known Member
Sorry for being unclear - I have an analog thermometer sitting on top of my light, and one digital thermometer at plant level. The analog up top stays around 80f during the day, and the digital down below shows similar temps as well. Since the digital thermometer also saves recent min. and max. temperature, I'm guessing that the temperature during lights off goes down to 68f.

In any case, I'll work on lowering temps - I'll probably start with turning down the light a bit (it's got dimmer switches).
I have issues with heat this time of year also, it's usually 82 lights on. I have a cheap window a/c unit still sitting in its box. The room I grow in has a perfect window set up for stealth and I don't want to change it by adding an a/c unit. I have considered an indoor a/c unit in the room and venting it to another room, but I'll probably survive the heat till next summer.
 

Solo0420

Well-Known Member
20170727_100437.jpg 20170727_100450.jpg 20170727_100502.jpg
This is starting to look bad, i topped the bigger 4 the other day think i messed it up didnt know you coukd mess it up then, they seem to be locked up really no growth the last two days plz help lol my my my
 

Johnei

Well-Known Member
Appreciate your taking the time to explain.. helps me wrap my head around all this

I'd like to thank you all who recommended hygrozyme! I added 3mL/gal (about 25mL total) about 24 hours ago, and I'm already seeing new root growth. In fact, I haven't seen roots grow so LONG in such a short time!

Up above, there hasn't been a newly wilting leaf since I lowered the temps last week, and this makes sense, given that it looks like the roots have stopped getting worse.

There is still quite a bit of browned roots, but there is definitely new growth. I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but I'm hopeful. Pics in a second!

View attachment 3983861
View attachment 3983862
Most recent pics up here..
They look a lot better. Awesome job man.

Just a thought for you, enzymes don't just do a job then are done, a single enzyme will do its job, then move on to next and continnue doing the job. they don't die, as they are not alive and continue to work over n over again. Hygrozyme price etc. like I mentioned before, after problems are gone, can use only 1/4 strength what bottle says as preventative, save some money/product, will work just as well. ;)
(even an 1/8th, this is probably dosage I would use if running DWC as a preventative in a clean tank.)

Definitely one of the bottled products that works at what it suppose to.
I'm sure there are are aquarium shop enzyme type products that are the same, just gotta find the one that works as well. It's out there I'm sure for fraction the cost.

Good Growing! :joint:
plants look great now.
 
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chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
Just a thought for you, enzymes don't just do a job then are done, a single enzyme will do its job, then move on to next and continnue doing the job. they don't die, as they are not alive and continue to work over n over again. Hygrozyme price etc. like I mentioned before, after problems are gone, can use only 1/4 strength what bottle says as preventative, save some money/product, will work just as well. ;)
(even an 1/8th, this is probably dosage I would use if running DWC as a preventative in a clean tank.)
Good to know! And incidentally, I put some hygrozyme in this morning and decided to only use 1/6th the strength.

Flipped to 12/12 two days ago, and they've already begun the stretch. Smelling good, too
 
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