The capabilities of a simple soil (and a 1000w DE bulb with SIPs)
- Thread starter kratos015
- Start date
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Two days ago (day 53)
From today (day 55)
Bummer seeing all that empty space on the floor, plan on fixing that and a few other little things for next run. Definitely more plants, and in smaller pots. Fill out that canopy much better, but also without growing into the lights too much. Hoping to run this light on a light mover next time around.
I've actually dimmed down the ballast to 750w to finish up the grow. The photos above don't really show the heat stress on the leaves, but some of these close ups the damage is more obvious.
They'll be much happier finishing out their time with less light stress, as opposed to the extra 250w. So close, yet so far.
Harvest looks promising, but I'm more stoked about seeing how well this single light performs come harvest. Covering a 5.5x8 sqft area with a single 1000w bulb is simply marvelous.
Pretty uneventful until harvest at this point, its pretty much just me filling SIP reservoirs until chop. In the meantime, I've got some new seeds coming in the next few days. I'm hoping to have them germinated, and in solo cups, ready to jump in the tent once this harvest is finished.
From today (day 55)
Bummer seeing all that empty space on the floor, plan on fixing that and a few other little things for next run. Definitely more plants, and in smaller pots. Fill out that canopy much better, but also without growing into the lights too much. Hoping to run this light on a light mover next time around.
I've actually dimmed down the ballast to 750w to finish up the grow. The photos above don't really show the heat stress on the leaves, but some of these close ups the damage is more obvious.
They'll be much happier finishing out their time with less light stress, as opposed to the extra 250w. So close, yet so far.
Harvest looks promising, but I'm more stoked about seeing how well this single light performs come harvest. Covering a 5.5x8 sqft area with a single 1000w bulb is simply marvelous.
Pretty uneventful until harvest at this point, its pretty much just me filling SIP reservoirs until chop. In the meantime, I've got some new seeds coming in the next few days. I'm hoping to have them germinated, and in solo cups, ready to jump in the tent once this harvest is finished.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Thrilled to hear it. The plants you recently posted photos of look very healthy. Lovely.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Bummer deal. Outdoors can be rough without good IPM (Integrated Pest Management), why Neem and Crab Meals are such vital ingredients in this soil mix. Though, I replace Crab Meal with Insect Frass as it has the Chitin but no Calcium.
It's a bit of a pain in the ass, and requires protective gear, but you can always make a hot pepper spray. Boil the hottest peppers that you can find into a concentrated liquid. I then dilute the pepper spray at a 10:1 ratio, and spray liberally on my plants. It's great as a preventative too.
Pretty much, imagine when we eat habaneros or something even hotter than that. Now, imagine its a bug eating it instead. Shit will straight not survive. The catch is, it takes multiple consistent applications. You're pretty much making the pest's food supply deadly for them. The trick is to keep the leaves covered so that the pests can't just wait until your plants aren't covered in the pepper spray and can eat again.
Works well, if applied often enough. Can be used up to the last 72 hours of flower with absolutely no flavor difference. Be sure you have something to cover your eyes, and wear gloves when processing the peppers and the spray.
MadCap_Mcgivver
Active Member
DE hps does the trick! I have one as well... Also what do you guys think about down to earth 444 and Dr earth 284 using Promix hp?... Looking to go organic. 1 cup of 444 to 5gal of soil then top dress with 1/4 - 1/2 a cup of each every 3 weeks with plain water, and maybe just some molasses the last 3 weeks of flower...
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Dr Earth makes a good product, can't go wrong with them. But, personally, I prefer my Phosphorus <8 if possible. I opt for their 4-6-x blends during flower.
Promix is good if you lack a good compost source, pricey stuff though. With a good source of compost, making one's own Promix is simple enough. Pretty much what I did, actually.
Bale of 3.8cuft peat expands to ~7.5cuft of uncompressed peat. Mix that up with 7.5cuft (2 bags) of perlite, and 2-4cuft of your compost source. Mix in your 4-4-4 blend, add appropriate amount of life/OSF for buffer (if needed), and done. Will make around 17-19 cuft of soil for less than the cost of 2 bales of promix ($50-$60/bale last I recall?). Less than the cost of 1 bale if you make your own compost and it costs you nothing.
I haven't used molasses since I brewed teas, well over 6 years ago now. Can't really comment on it, unfortunately.
I can't recommend coconut water enough though. You can dilute and feed with it when they're in solo cups. Do a side by side sometime and see the effects for yourself, node growth explodes, with node spacing getting shorter.
Recommendations aside, your plan sounds just fine IMO.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
I still can't believe it, even when I'm standing right in front of it. And there's so much room for improvement too, lots of empty space underneath that light still. Planning for more plants next time around to achieve a more even and thicker canopy.
Thanks for stopping in.
Ha! For once there's a product that's actually MUCH cheaper in Canada.
But given that, the price is still over $30 Canadian it seems this year and the same quantity (3.8 cubic feet) of peat moss is only $12.99. So it's still a good saving if you DIY even here in Canada.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Used to be that much when I lived near a Home Depot, my local Ace Hardware charges $17.99Ha! For once there's a product that's actually MUCH cheaper in Canada.
Still much cheaper than buying pre-made though! I don't know what I'd do without being able to mix my own soil, pre-made gets so expensive :/
I'm never going back. Can't believe what this light is doing for me, and in a ~7ft tall tent nonetheless.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Day 57 today. This light is remarkable.
Strawberry Cough normally takes 60-70 days, but a lot of the tops on them are looking done. The smaller plants still look like they have some time to go for sure, but since having posted the last photos some of those Strawberry buds are definitely ripe. I'll be spraying off that foliar residue and harvesting some of the tops sometime tomorrow after work. Looking like the entire Strawberry Cough plant on the back left, as well as half of the Cough plant directly underneath the light.
Everything else looks like it'll need at least a week.
Photos themselves are pretty shit, got a new macro app on my phone I was toying with.
Strawberry Cough normally takes 60-70 days, but a lot of the tops on them are looking done. The smaller plants still look like they have some time to go for sure, but since having posted the last photos some of those Strawberry buds are definitely ripe. I'll be spraying off that foliar residue and harvesting some of the tops sometime tomorrow after work. Looking like the entire Strawberry Cough plant on the back left, as well as half of the Cough plant directly underneath the light.
Everything else looks like it'll need at least a week.
Photos themselves are pretty shit, got a new macro app on my phone I was toying with.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Actually haven't been in during lights off in weeks now, realized I never took photos of them lights off so took advantage here.
I'm already looking forward to next time around. Seeds are here, will be germinating soon. They'll be in solo cups and ready to go into 5g pots by the time I've harvested and sanitized the tent. It never hurts anything, and only takes a hour or so.
The plan is to grow enough plants that can fill the canopy more evenly, and fully. I'm also looking to invest in a light mover. The plants in the middle were exposed to the DE too much, with the sides too little. By dialing in a light mover for this light, I hope to solve both problems.
That 1000w DE lights up 5.5x8 sqft, possible I could stretch it to 6x8 sqft once the light mover comes in.
If I can somehow fill that 44 sqft area with enough plants, and put them all in a SIP reservoir, the results would be spectacular.
I'm already looking forward to next time around. Seeds are here, will be germinating soon. They'll be in solo cups and ready to go into 5g pots by the time I've harvested and sanitized the tent. It never hurts anything, and only takes a hour or so.
The plan is to grow enough plants that can fill the canopy more evenly, and fully. I'm also looking to invest in a light mover. The plants in the middle were exposed to the DE too much, with the sides too little. By dialing in a light mover for this light, I hope to solve both problems.
That 1000w DE lights up 5.5x8 sqft, possible I could stretch it to 6x8 sqft once the light mover comes in.
If I can somehow fill that 44 sqft area with enough plants, and put them all in a SIP reservoir, the results would be spectacular.
El Verdugo
Well-Known Member
Great work @kratos015 !
Yeah man, nice results. That’s a huge amount of light in such a small and low ceiling area! Have you ever tested it’s intensity with a Lux/ PAR meter?
I’ve been trying out a new room full of DEs, using 600w HPS and 630w CMH. I upgraded to these on this room, I have another one that uses all 315CMH single bulbs with a couple of 600w HPS that does well... but doesn’t hold a candle to the DE’s. ( actually, they look like candles next to the DEs lol)
I’ve been trying out a new room full of DEs, using 600w HPS and 630w CMH. I upgraded to these on this room, I have another one that uses all 315CMH single bulbs with a couple of 600w HPS that does well... but doesn’t hold a candle to the DE’s. ( actually, they look like candles next to the DEs lol)
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Hey, thanks man! I actually don't have a PAR meter, so unfortunately I can't really comment much on that.
I've also no experience with CMH, but I can definitely imagine them being like candles next to a DE for sure. It is unbelievable how bright this fucking light is, like wow! I have heard amazing things about CMH when compared to SE HPS, but the DE lights are just out of this world. $200 to fill a 5.5x8 sqft area simply cannot be beat. The bulbs on them last for multiple years, so that's not an expense factor. And they light up so much space, the electric cost isn't so bad.
Its funny, I started this journal out to put a simple living soil's results on display, but its definitely looking like the DE in a tent is the thing to display here. The mantra concerning DE's has always been "DE needs 3-4ft distance from the canopy" or "10ft ceilings minimum", but I'm in a 6.6ft tall tent with some buds that got close to 1ft away from the light.
Though, I feel like I must emphasize for anyone else that may read this at a later time. The DE in my tent working this successfully was the result of a lot of outside variables.
- If my RH% dipped below 50%, the plants would show it. Got to the point where I didn't have to look at the hygrometer to know. The plants looked the most happy and robust when RH was about 60%, they looked sad and struggled when it was below 50%.
- The SIPs. Combined with a RH of above 50%, the SIPs will ensure that your plants (and soil, even more important than the plants) are constantly moist in a consistent and perfect fashion. These plants were never over, nor underwatered in all of flower (when I implemented the SIPs). The soil always had the perfect amount of moisture in it. Combine this with the plants having tons of moisture in the air? They were never stressed concerning water. The SIPs kept them perfectly watered.
- The soil. The simplicity of the soil's recipe, as well as what it provided for the plants definitely deserves credit. Even with SIPs and RH, without a well balanced soil (in terms of both nutritional value and texture) you can only do so much.
Don't want people just arbitrarily throwing DEs into a tent lol. That'd be a disaster. There were multiple variables involved that allowed for the DE to perform so well.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Hacked up the tops of the Strawberries in the 25g pots on day 59, they were done. Being so close to the light source, not too surprised.
I'm genuinely surprised the damage of the buds, nor the leaves wasn't significantly worse. I feel like a 1000w DE (sometimes cranked up to 1150w) would have bleached and scorched the shit out of them. Some of the buds were even as close as 1ft to the light. If I didn't have photos, there is absolutely no way anyone would believe me if I said that.
I mean, even seeing it in person I still didn't believe it. I will never run >50% RH ever again if I can control it, it is truly remarkable to me how much I've been able to push these plants because of the RH. I've harvested a decent chunk of the tent so far.
The Strawberry on the left was pulled on day 59.
Strawberry in the middle on day 60.
Green Crack: Day 61.
I've completely filled 2 6ft drying racks with the tops of the Strawberries and the Green Crack, so I'm excited to soon finally get an idea of what this light is truly capable of.
Here's how things look now.
Hoping to find out about weight by Friday-Saturday, once everything dries and goes into jars.
Having seen the SIPs in action, and perform so incredibly, I've a theory I was wondering if anyone might be able to disprove before I go through the trouble of finding out myself. If one grows with SIPs, does one need an aeration/drainage input in one's soil?
The SIPs make the need for drainage in a soil superfluous, and since the water is never stagnant it should ensure sufficient aeration as well, no? The only somewhat conclusive answer I could find was some people recommending a 45% peat/45% compost/10% perlite mix for their SIPs. I'll likely opt for 75% peat/25% compost in an effort to stall compaction.
Imagine if you could grow in a medium without perlite/etc. in it. If the average soil has 1/3 perlite in it, that's an entire 1/3 of soil mass that roots cannot grow in. For perspective, that's 10g out of a 30g pot that roots cannot grow in! You have 30g of soil mass, but only the capacity for 20g of root mass!
I'd appreciate if someone is able to comment on any experience or sources about reducing/eliminating perlite in a soil for SIPs. Otherwise, I'll just have to find out for myself ;p
Next tent grow is already in the works. Seeds are here, and are soaking in a water+FulPower mixture. They'll go into paper towels in 24 hours, then into solo cups once they pop. They'll remain in solo cups until I harvest this first batch, then sanitize the tent/equipment. By then, they should be ready to go into their final 5g pots which will then go into the tent.
This will require me to go the ROLS route with the 25g pots, instead of no-till. Will suck to break apart the soil web, but a ROLS is better than making an entirely new soil. Gonna dump the pots and mix with enough peat to fill 24 5g pots. My goal is to a create a more even canopy with smaller plants, as opposed to larger trained plants. Became a caregiver for someone else, so I'm able to do this while staying at my plant count.
Very excited to see what happens.
I'm genuinely surprised the damage of the buds, nor the leaves wasn't significantly worse. I feel like a 1000w DE (sometimes cranked up to 1150w) would have bleached and scorched the shit out of them. Some of the buds were even as close as 1ft to the light. If I didn't have photos, there is absolutely no way anyone would believe me if I said that.
I mean, even seeing it in person I still didn't believe it. I will never run >50% RH ever again if I can control it, it is truly remarkable to me how much I've been able to push these plants because of the RH. I've harvested a decent chunk of the tent so far.
The Strawberry on the left was pulled on day 59.
Strawberry in the middle on day 60.
Green Crack: Day 61.
I've completely filled 2 6ft drying racks with the tops of the Strawberries and the Green Crack, so I'm excited to soon finally get an idea of what this light is truly capable of.
Here's how things look now.
Hoping to find out about weight by Friday-Saturday, once everything dries and goes into jars.
Having seen the SIPs in action, and perform so incredibly, I've a theory I was wondering if anyone might be able to disprove before I go through the trouble of finding out myself. If one grows with SIPs, does one need an aeration/drainage input in one's soil?
The SIPs make the need for drainage in a soil superfluous, and since the water is never stagnant it should ensure sufficient aeration as well, no? The only somewhat conclusive answer I could find was some people recommending a 45% peat/45% compost/10% perlite mix for their SIPs. I'll likely opt for 75% peat/25% compost in an effort to stall compaction.
Imagine if you could grow in a medium without perlite/etc. in it. If the average soil has 1/3 perlite in it, that's an entire 1/3 of soil mass that roots cannot grow in. For perspective, that's 10g out of a 30g pot that roots cannot grow in! You have 30g of soil mass, but only the capacity for 20g of root mass!
I'd appreciate if someone is able to comment on any experience or sources about reducing/eliminating perlite in a soil for SIPs. Otherwise, I'll just have to find out for myself ;p
Next tent grow is already in the works. Seeds are here, and are soaking in a water+FulPower mixture. They'll go into paper towels in 24 hours, then into solo cups once they pop. They'll remain in solo cups until I harvest this first batch, then sanitize the tent/equipment. By then, they should be ready to go into their final 5g pots which will then go into the tent.
This will require me to go the ROLS route with the 25g pots, instead of no-till. Will suck to break apart the soil web, but a ROLS is better than making an entirely new soil. Gonna dump the pots and mix with enough peat to fill 24 5g pots. My goal is to a create a more even canopy with smaller plants, as opposed to larger trained plants. Became a caregiver for someone else, so I'm able to do this while staying at my plant count.
Very excited to see what happens.
Nice grow Kratos. Well done!
I've always questioned the aeration percentage recommendations myself. Could I do better with more or less? I've been using sips or swicks the last three or four grows myself. When I switched to them, I upped the aeration percentage. Mainly going by a few respected members on this forum at the time (Hyroot, Wetdog) recommending more aeration when using sips. Wetdog saying he starts at 40% and gets close to 50% with other aeration amendments. Reasoning being the soil in sips is always wet, or at least moist, and they do better with extra aeration. Whether that's true I can't say, but the logic seemed to make sense, and being these guys had way more experience then me, thats what I've been going by. It has worked out. But is it needed and could my plants do better with less aeration and replaced with rich humus/good compost in its place? I'm sure there's a fine line there somewhere. And it probably would be a little different going from sips to hand watering containers.
I don't care so much about quantity, but quality is where it's at for me. I'm between 40 - 45% on perlite/pumice on this run. And then there's also rice hulls with the benefit of extra silica. But they do break down over time and are lost.
I guess the best way to figure it out would be to experiment with runs of clones and different percentages of areaation. Everything else being the same.
El Verdugo
Well-Known Member
Great grow @kratos015 ! This was the inspiration for my swick grow! Have 5 girls mainlined in swicks, gathering pics for journal! Many Thanks brother...