Three a Light???

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by akhiymjames, Apr 22, 2016.


    Dumme Well-Known Member

    A couple of things I think are worth mentioning when growers bring up “defoliation”. No amount of nutrients will help the plant grow, unless they are first processed through the leaves. Only then, may mobile nutrients, commonly called “plant food” continue to the buds, for growth. The real name for plant food is called “photosynthate”, but for the purpose and ease of this post, let’s use the term “plant food”.

    “Leaves” have two main purposes:

    Image source:

    1st, You can thank the leaves themselves for 99% of all the uptake of water and nutrients. Plants have a very small chain of water molecules that stretch from root to leaf, within the “xylem” (the woody center part). This ionic chain phenomenon is referred to as cohesion, whereas the entire uptake, from root to leaf, is called “transpiration”. Water is basically the blood of the plant. If you cut any leaves off, you limit the plants resources of water.

    [​IMG]2nd, Leaves make all the “plant food” that the plants use to grow, while managing waste (O2),
    through the stomata. The stomata are very small pore-like openings in the bottom of the leaf, that
    exchanges new CO2 and O2, and water evaporation. “Plant food” is made through a process called photosynthesis, with in the chloroplast. Leaves are like a big food engine, but instead of 2 fuels like a car (gas & O2), leaves have 3 fuels (CO2 & Nutrients & PAR).

    So, why remove them?

    I’ve never liked the term of “defoliation” as it means “to strip (a tree, bush, etc.) of leaves”, implying all of them. I prefer to use their relative nick-names, “lollipopping”, “schwazzing” or even “pruning”, to limit confusion. These methods are not something I would promote anyone who desires larger yield, especially outside in full sun or if using auto-flowering seeds. Realistically, removing “any” healthy mature leaf will hinder growth & yield. A good rule of thumb would be to let the plant itself decide naturally what she wants to keep.

    Distinguishing the different terms of training, or pruning growth is also a factor. Pruning a branch off the main stem, to manipulate growth direction, is not defoliation. Defoliation includes only leaf matter.

    Growth “time span”, is also something that plays a roll. Depending on the cannabis grower’s view, any plant manipulation while in vegetation cycle may not be viewed as playing a role in final yield, while referring to defoliation. As an example, a farmer could prune half the vegetation off in veg cycle, but gives enough time for the vegetation to grow back, before entering into flower. If the factor of “time” itself is removed, the outcome of yield could be viewed differently.

    Image source: ILGM (Redbudbush)

    Buds, do NOT require any light. No amount of light that’s exposed to the bud ‘itself’ will help it grow, or yield more. There is, however, redistribution of sugars through “sink” manipulation.

    Where/what is this sink?

    Image source:

    “Sinks cells” are areas of new growth with low osmotic pressure. Leaves are areas of high pressure, hence why “plant food” or post-photosynthetic nutrients, flow from high pressure leaves, to low pressure sinks; commonly called “osmosis”. Sinks can be in the roots or the shoots of the plant (new growth). After the plant food has been manufactured in the leaves, it enters into the phloem, starting at an area in the leaf called “source cells”. From here, osmosis carries “plant food” to its destination and use.

    Younger leaves always use more processed nutrient (plant food) than they can make through their own photosynthetic actions, and must draw from other leaves. If they are removed (in flower) the plant food that would have gone to them for maturing, would be redirected to the remaining areas of “sinks”. This works for buds too. Any buds removed, allows plant food to flow towards remaining sinks.

    Finally, there’s one more thing to consider, called “relative osmotic location”. Basically, the closer the mature, healthy leaves are to the sink location, the faster the plant food arrives, and the more efficient the growth process is. Leaf location matters. It’s also worthy to note that all leaves work as a collective, with light PAR. Nothing changes ‘how’ the plant food is manufactured because of location of leaf removed.

    There are two main defoliation methods that cannabis growers can choose from.

    1) They can focus on upper colas by removing under developed, lower growth (leaves & buds alike). Generally speaking, this is the method that will yield the most, with very large colas on top, but you may be victim of a larf (popcorn) sized buds below. This method is often referred to as “lollipopping”.

    Image Source: ILGM

    2) They can focus on a more consistent size bud throughout the plant, by removing larger leaves above. This method forcing the plant to mature lower leaves evenly, thus causing “relative osmotic location” to enhance lower growth and size of the sinks directly around them. This method generally yield much less because the younger leaves are sinks as well, and compete directly with the bud’s sink strength, on the available plant food. The lower buds will ripen with a larger, consistent size, but the upper colas will suffer and yield less. This method is often referred to as “Schwazzing”.

    Now for an overall recap. Nutrients use the water to hitchhike a ride, up the xylem, to the chloroplast in the leaf. The leaf processes the raw nutrient into plant food. Then, plant food, enters into the phloem, and high pressure pushes it throughout the plant to areas of low pressure and use.

    As standard rules while in veg cycle go:

    Any healthy, mature leaf removed “will not” effect over all yield size.

    Any healthy, mature leaf removed “will” hinder overall growth speed.

    As standard rules while in flower cycle go:

    Any healthy, mature leaf removed “will” effect over all yield size.

    Any healthy, mature leaf removed “will” hinder overall growth speed.

    and for those whom choose to continue to schwazz:
    20160520_193750.jpg 20160520_191949.jpg 2016-01-08-1452290831-6030848-8.png 2016-01-08-1452290695-5918422-62.png Day 20.jpg Day 20 after.jpg Harvest Day.jpg

    Don't pay for a picture book!

    Attached Files:


    Growerbert Member

    Oh my Gooooooooooooooood
    It burnt!!!! under 110V
    within about one month
    I bought it because of so many positive feedback there
    I cannot imagine it is such a junk
    I am very disappointed, so upset
    Any one tell me what I can do now?
    Such a junk shit
    I stopped using another 600W......
    So disappointed, upset...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    BushMaster15 and churchhaze like this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I think there is something better you can do than defoliating lower leaves. MUCH better in fact.
    Leaves are important, they drive transpiration, without which, important but passive minerals like calcium that builds cell walls can not be transported into the plant.

    I actually only learned about this recently.
    When light passes through a leaf it is basically green light that hits the leaves below.
    Now, the leaves are very clever, they know if there are lots of them together to the point that they are casting shade on each other, they should not exhale too much water.

    So, how do we trick them into opening up those stomata on the lower leaves and pulling up water and nutrients? ADMINISTER BLUE LIGHT TO THE BOTTOM PART OF THE PLANT!
    You want to make sure to have enough airflow and fresh circulation of new air, ample calcium and a bigger basket to harvest in.

    mjinc Well-Known Member

    That looks extrememly dangerous. What's the warranty on these like and will they refund your money?
    Budddha likes this.

    blake9999 Well-Known Member

    cCan you post a little more info on that feeding schedule they talk about in that book. Just curious.bongsmilie

    Dumme Well-Known Member

    It's a waste of money... but here is the schedules..

    trees-back.jpg micro-back.jpg flowers-back.png silica-back.jpg fire-back.jpg sugar-back.jpg balance-back.jpg gametime-back.jpg blastoff-back.jpg
    akhiymjames and mr. childs like this.

    blake9999 Well-Known Member

    @Domme Thankl you for the information. Just curious on what is different from what everyone else is doing anyway.

    Dumme Well-Known Member

    Nothing. Bottled shit is bottled shit. It doesn't matter who wipes.

    The moral of the story is that 3alight are ripping off uneducated farmers.
    Last edited: May 12, 2017

    Kygiacomo Well-Known Member

    what happen to the other guys in this thread that was stripping the plants? and pet flora how come your first pic of the plants are roasted man? u have overfed the shit out those plants.

    Kygiacomo Well-Known Member

    akhiymjames likes this.

    Kygiacomo Well-Known Member

    how did it do in the end?

    genuity ambition

    Not bad,but not necessarily needed....(on that plant)
    akhiymjames and Kygiacomo like this.

    BobCajun Well-Known Member

    Reading about this technique, I agree defol can be a good thing but I don't agree with their methods in detail. Like I don't recommend defol when starting flowering. I think they need the leaves at that time for good flowering response, since the florigen comes from the leaves. My current thing is defol at the end of week 5. Maybe week 4 or even 6 would work but I'm thinking 5, right in the middle of the 10 weeks and after the stretching has mostly stopped. I also leave lower fan leaf, no reason to remove it.

    Why I think the defol works is that pots can only hold a certain amount of roots and when you remove a bunch of big leaves all that root is redirected into the bud sites. They can therefore fill back out quickly to about the same amount of total plant material, but replaced by bud instead of fan leaf, because they don't need to build new roots for those new buds, they were already there. I think that's also why when you remove the big fan leaves on veging plants they fill back out so fast with branches.

    bottletoke Well-Known Member

    That's my method, 1000w gavitas on top and vertical 315 lec's down low. Plus I run twice as many fans under the canopy then above, works great.
    akhiymjames, mr. childs and ANC like this.

    BobCajun Well-Known Member

    The key to a quick regrowth is to up the light hours to 13 for a while. That's also how you get big plants in flowering, 13 hour days for the first while until you're happy with the size. I usually start with 12, for the first week to get them into flower mode, then 13 for weeks 2 and 3. But then if I keep going during week 4 they end up getting too big and leafy so I go back to 12. But now I'm trying going to 13 again just for the one week following the defol/topping at 5 weeks to bush them back up quickly.

    MySativaArmy Member

    Because it has electrolytes
    cjsbabygirl313 likes this.

    BobCajun Well-Known Member

    Regarding the "bud swelling" technique, I do pinch off the tops of the main buds when they get high enough, and that does seem to fatten up the rest of the buds a little more than usual, but that's pretty much the end of it, it's not a repeated thing.

    MySativaArmy Member

    Feed it brawndro to fatten up your buds, brawndo has what plants need. It has electrolytes

    MySativaArmy Member

    Got some kitties to guard my weed plants

    MySativaArmy Member

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