Sir Napsalot
Well-Known Member
Those are piscivorous fish
now if there was some shark in there things'd be different
TRUMP INDICTED
- Thread starter jimihendrix1
- Start date
now if there was some shark in there things'd be different
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
fish are meat
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'm getting at a political ploy and not justice. Hoarding is an obsessive-compulsive disorder. Also portraying him as childish, selfish and willful. Both imply Trump couldn't help himself. It rationalizes what Trump did as something naughty and impulsive rather than a crime he chose to commit that harms our nation's security and put lives at risk. It is not an excuse but an argument for pardoning Trump after he's found guilty.
It's not as if a drug addict can make the same sort of plea and get their sentence reduced. But then again, as DIY posted, we are seeing, two tiered justice that favors Trump over most everybody else.
IMO, people are shaping the discussion when they call Trump childish and a hoarder, giving his followers a reason to discuss within the right wing echo chamber why Trump should be pardoned.
It sets my teeth on edge when I see those comparisons right next to how great a leader he is. But then again, right wing followers compartmentalize contradictory beliefs and don't try to reconcile them.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
What they describe are character flaws under the law, not mental illness, it is not an excuse, they were casting about for motives, selfishness, ego, collecting, profit, favors etc. Motive doesn't matter, they caught him with the goods and if he flashed the docs around in NJ, they could indict him there too. It would be nice to have a motive and there could be several, Donald has a pretty addled brain, but in this case, no motive is required. Hoarding is a symptom of mental illness and decline and I doubt he would plead, insanity, senility or guilty.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So. We agree.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I agree that the engine of his actions matters not when held against the effect of his actions. I was not clear enough about that.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Maybe I wasn't clear that I think Trump was not hoarding nor was he being childish. Those characterizations are bullshit meant to minimize what Trump actually did. Any time one sees those descriptions being made, one should look into who said that and what their agenda is. I think Trump was greedily hanging on to very valuable documents, ready to negotiate and trade those documents or information they contain in exchange for something that is in his own self interest. I'm hopefully expecting to see evidence proving this at Trump's trial in the Mar a Lago documents case.
ANC
Well-Known Member
Isn't this ultimately what democracy is? The will of 10 idiots is worth more than one professor.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That sounds a bit extreme. When has that ever happened? I'm not talking about small groups but in large polls like the ones we have in elections, I can't recall a time when there was such extreme disagreement between the majority and experts.
Our problem in the US today is that the constitution and illiberal schemes like gerrymandering have given too much power to minority interests. The majority in this country support measures to address carbon emissions and better regulations of firearms. Our schools would be better funded too. The majority supports women's reproductive rights. Maybe in South Africa you are seeing a different problem but in the US, the majority, for the most part are not the source of our problems in government or inability to respond to problems. .
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
If incompetence is his defense, then he should be placed in a mental institution for a complete psychological examination....They would never let the fucker back out of those doors, once they got him, he will ALWAYS be a danger to himself and others.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
It makes sense, really. Incompetence is one of the few things he excels at.
The other things he excels at are also problematic.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
If i was the judge, i would call counsel to the bench, and ask, privately, "Do you really want your client to have to undergo a psychiatric examination, where his release would be up to the doctors? Doctors who could decide to keep him for observation until they feel he can be released safely?"
If they refuse, then the incompetence defense is out the window. If they agree, problem solved, the shrinks will never let the crazy bastard loose again.
If they refuse, then the incompetence defense is out the window. If they agree, problem solved, the shrinks will never let the crazy bastard loose again.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
He's not incompetent. He's a criminal who tried to steal our democracy.
What he did with those docs was make a calculated attempt at stealing extremely valuable government documents and selling the information for personal gain, power, blackmail or whatever he could get for it. Stealing those documents was like stealing the Mona Lisa. Not many would buy them but those who could would set Trump up for his next foray into stealing the US's democracy away from its people. Maybe that has already happened.
Trump is not incompetent, psychological or otherwise he's not a hoarder, he's not childish. Those are excuses that make him human. They are used by his propaganda machine proactively to soften his punishment should he lose at trial and provide the next GOP president an excuse for a pardon. What he is, is greedy and a hardened criminal. A monster in human form This is what I hope to be shown to all who can see at his trial.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I’m not sure why it took me a day to get your point. Drugs, perhaps.
I agree that portraying his evil as a disability is a lie told to minimize his evil. The kicker imo is how the party has embraced some of his evil and is turning it into policy. The absence of likely Republican candidates who consistently renounce his crimes has newspapers using words like existential when describing the nation’s peril.
It’s the closest thing to a comic-book villain we’ve had in the White House.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
a sensible ruling, and not from Cannon
amp.cnn.com
Judge issues order that Trump keep quiet about disclosure of discovery material issued in classified documents case | CNN Politics
A magistrate judge has signed off on special counsel Jack Smith’s request that former President Donald Trump and his co-defendant Walt Nauta be prohibited from disclosing information the discovery handed over to the defense in the criminal case Trump and Nauta now face from the special counsel.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure, and i honestly don't care... As long as it ends up with him being sent to a facility he can do no further harm from.
It seems like you may be crediting trump with more intelligence and cunning than he has. He's a slum lord on steroids, he's a shady piece of shit, he's a con man who got good enough at it to buy expensive suits, that still make him look like a sack of shit...
He's a grifter who fell into the 3 card monty game of a life time, and he ain't putting the deck away until the cops bust it up...
The real fucking criminals are the ones who proposed the ideas to him to commit treason to begin with. Roger Stone, Bannon, everyone involved, from kylie jane kremer and her horde of female fascists, to everyone involved in any of the fake electors scams, all the state ag's and lt. governors who control state level elections and fed into this shit...the whole corrupt fucking party. trump is the head of the bloated, infected boil, and it needs to be lanced, and then cauterized.
Highway61
Well-Known Member
I agree with this sentiment and have often said that Trump's final defense will be that he is not a criminal. He is just an idiot.
Intent is almost always important in determining whether a crime was committed and how severely should that crime be punished. The more calculated, the more intentional, the more craven the purpose, the greater is the crime and the punishment. Two people may be guilty of the same crime but one might be punished more severely based on what was their intent at the time they committed the crime.
The GOP is defending Trump on the basis that he isn't a criminal. "He is just a hoarder." "He did not intend to do anything bad with the docs". And I don't believe it for one second. Trump is both a victim and a user of Kompromat. He has his files and he was planning to use them to his own advantage. But if the GOP could get away with convincing the public that Trump is not as bad as it seems, then they might not get caught in the overspray of culpability for his criminality.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You are too soft on Trump.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
i was just reading the order:::a sensible ruling, and not from Cannon
Judge issues order that Trump keep quiet about disclosure of discovery material issued in classified documents case | CNN Politics
A magistrate judge has signed off on special counsel Jack Smith’s request that former President Donald Trump and his co-defendant Walt Nauta be prohibited from disclosing information the discovery handed over to the defense in the criminal case Trump and Nauta now face from the special counsel.
here it is
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Will Trump's crimes at Bedminster, NJ, be the next federal indictment pursued by Jack Smith
230,059 views Jun 18, 2023 #TeamJustice
This video takes on several issues relevant to the Trump trials:
1. Why was there no search warrant conducted at Trump's Bedminster golf club in New Jersey?
2. Why has Trump not (yet) been indicted for the crimes that he committed in New Jersey that were disclosed in the federal indictment recently unsealed in Trump 's Florida prosecution?
3. Why is Walt Nauta the only co-conspirator that was indicted in the federal case brought in Florida?
4. Donald Trump's mouth is a target-rich environment for Special Counsel Jack Smith. Given the new reporting that Trump called and spoke with Pennsylvania politician Doug Mastriano, how might Jack Smith exploit this and other phone conversations involving Trump between the time he lost the election and the time he ordered the attack on the US Capitol on January 6, 2021.