unpopular and hotbutton personal and political beliefs.

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
After starting a thread earlier I made a post dictated largely by emotion. However as many know moments of emotion can breed truth as well I made a.post something to the tune of well... this...
Even though the govt. And religion are seperate (hahaha) such a punishment would be seen as inhumane and vengeful. The relisious sector would freak out... that said I agree. I think u should have to piss in a cup.for welfare. Take a political aptitude test to vote. Plead your reason for seeking abortion before a jury of peers and I'm no man of the Bible but it should be eye for an eye. You rape a baby you should be raped repeatedly with a double barrel 12 Guage then have both triggers pulled simultaneously. You kill someone anyone who cared for them should be allowed to do unto you as u did unto their loved ones... tenfold. But I realize that that is largely irrational lol.
It generated a little interest in my logic (believe me I have the same.interest.. many of these thoughts are inexplicable even to myself.. including a few personal struggles in which my mind says the opposite if what my heart feels) the discussion. Brought the thread a little off topic so I thought I'd open this up here. I know CN in particular had in interest in my oddball thought process so I invite him to come on in. Any debate had should lack personal attack or degredation or defamation. All are welcome to post and contribute just please be respectful of others thoughts an opinions in ur feedback. Opinions are like assholes we all have one and Urs smells worse. With that I'd like to hear any irrational or off the wall beliefs any if u may have that maybe u refrain from speaking about. Nothing's off limits here and I'm not here to judge anyone. But I am interested in how many REALLY feel about many of these issues. Not what u think society wants u to feel but what u think personally. No answer is to extreme or off the wall. Rape abortion murder drug reform welfare ssi whatever just name it... this should be fun.. remember to keep you heads level.. no need to see this turn into a bunch of bans and a locked thread eh? :joint:
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
Please bare in mind I'm not a political savant analyst.I'm not highly experienced in debate and I don't claim to know more than anybody I'm simply here for a little enlightenment and good conversation I hope you all are too
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
OK I'll play :mrgreen:

I was drawn in by two things you wrote:
1) that you should pee in a cup for welfare
2) that those seeking abortions should have to go before a tribunal.

1) Why perpetuate the abuse of gov't power that goes into controlling/proscribing any discretionary intoxicant?
2) What part of "I do not want to have a baby" would a jury/tribunal be needed to approve?

The undercurrent to both my questions might be "why presume the restriction before the civil right?" cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Please bare in mind I'm not a political savant analyst.I'm not highly experienced in debate and I don't claim to know more than anybody I'm simply here for a little enlightenment and good conversation I hope you all are too
My politics are tentative and somewhat disengaged as well. My thought habits come from a former career as a bench chemist. I too am here for fun, not fresh meat. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
...requires two. I'd prefer to believe that even now, Sensai is rereading, polishing, honing a spectacular opening broadside. A stout ship, a willing foe, and sea room. cn
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
I don't think there should be any drug testing. Who fucking cares if anyone does drugs? What is drug testing people on welfare going to accomplish? Wouldn't that money be better spent making rehab programs to help people that need help?
 

charface

Well-Known Member
I think we need to take some of the cash saved by not fucking with potheads and use it to
add security measures to our schools. If attendance is mandatory then so should be some real assurance that they will be returned at the end of each day.
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
OK I'll play :mrgreen:

I was drawn in by two things you wrote:
1) that you should pee in a cup for welfare
2) that those seeking abortions should have to go before a tribunal.

1) Why perpetuate the abuse of gov't power that goes into controlling/proscribing any discretionary intoxicant?
2) What part of "I do not want to have a baby" would a jury/tribunal be needed to approve?

The undercurrent to both my questions might be "why presume the restriction before the civil right?" cn
I wanna state first that I do not view cannabis as a drug and feel that such a thought should be expressed before I comment on drug testing.
I do believe u should have to piss in a cup for welfare. I had to pee in one to help pay for it. But if your going out getting tweaked on Meth. Well you made yourself your own problem and should not be a problem of the tax payers. I don't like the thought if my tax money supporting tweakers. If u can't prove ur devoted enough to recovery to get clean from a deadly drug like Meth or heroin then I don't believe you'll use welfare for its intention. Welfare is temporary assistance but many have made it a career path. I work at a grocery store and daily I see sickening situations. Its not JUST me being a judgemental dick. I live in a very small town and am familiar with nearly everyone's story. I know many of these people are cooking Meth. I watch them send their kids down to buy the lobster crab corn and other produce when its on sale then go down the street and sale it as fresh for 2x the money. Its a daily event. Perhaps its more prevelant in my life because where I worked having to see it daily. But I truly believe that if u piss for anything but weed or a prescribed drug (in recommended doses) you should be denied any assistance but rehab until you can prove your worth a societal investment.

Abortion... the interesting one lol. I realize the irrationality of my views toward this one fully. However that doesn't change the fact that my mind enjoys the thought (of the jury not abortion). First off... officially let me say in terms of abortion... its not something I can condone.. its not something I would support. However I am not the type that will crudity you for a personal choice. I don't wish to hear about it but I would hope that those involved wouldn't hope to speak of it... if they do well then abortion is likely the least of their issue.. that said I would be perfectly o.k. with people having to face the peers judgment before being granted permission. Anyone can argue the idea of pregnancy and parameters of abortion but its can't be disputed that life begins at conception.. (intelligent life? Probably not hats another debate)
But a life none the less and I value that greatly. Therefore I couldn't support it. I think its reasonable that unless it directly effects the welfare if the mother or is a product of rape.. the person(s) responsible for conception should have to convince at least 7 of 12 that they should be allow to terminate. I don't think "cause.I'm 15" is a reasonable excuse. They'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that an abortion would be the best option for everyone involved. But thus is one of those personal struggles I speak of because.my morals and heart feel such however my mind thinks

We are a world with limited room and resources and a living diversity that is unfathomable. Much like growing weed more nitrogen wont fix a k deficiency. My mind says hey.. its brutal but China's kinda got the right idea.. I know.ill catch shit for this.... but a 2 child limit is something I wouldn't exactly object to...immediate all fucked up lol. I love all life.. however in order to sustain that life much must be culled to allow for another. If u think orphanages are full now what about if there were no abortion? Population would explode and earth could be exhausted 20% sooner than projected. But were still a moral society and its wrong to kill the living.. I guess I'm one of those few who still battles moral over necessity for longevity.

Wow I'm way off track here lol. I believe that if u want to terminate an otherwise healthy conception through consensual means.. you should have to have a damn good reason... one good enough to sway the majority at least.. again.. I realize its impractical.. I try not and focus.on the things that don't directly effect my life. This "I didn't enjoy this so noone else should" attitude has a lot to do with mjs continued prohibition so I try not and perpetuate it. But sometimes its hard to not be the pessimist.

"The sooner the world comes around to my way of thinking the better off well all be" is not the approach I'm trying to convey hear.. so I hope I did not.
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
I don't think there should be any drug testing. Who fucking cares if anyone does drugs? What is drug testing people on welfare going to accomplish? Wouldn't that money be better spent making rehab programs to help people that need help?
yeah, screw drug testing for peps on welfare, i say drug test every federal judge, politician, senator, congressman, bank owner, you know, the people who make decisions that effects 100000s of peoples lives..
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys. Out Xmas shopping with the Mrs so my responses will be delayed somewhat. Ill try responding asap
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
As broadsides go, that wasn't very violent, and I especially like the self-doubt woven into the fabric. I'm beginning to like you. I will address the meat of your long post ... but without haste. cn
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
yeah, screw drug testing for peps on welfare, i say drug test every federal judge, politician, senator, congressman, bank owner, you know, the people who make decisions that effects 100000s of peoples lives..
Or no drug testing at all and just judge people based on performance.

Do drugs and also do a good job, regardless of what your job happens to be? Great, keep up the good work.
Don't do drugs and do a bad job at your job? You're fired [/trump]

I don't understand what drug testing is going to accomplish, and why we can't just judge people based on their actions.
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
Or no drug testing at all and just judge people based on performance.

Do drugs and also do a good job, regardless of what your job happens to be? Great, keep up the good work.
Don't do drugs and do a bad job at your job? You're fired [/trump]

I don't understand what drug testing is going to accomplish, and why we can't just judge people based on their actions.
I wish it were so simple. As someone whom has recovered from the effects of Meth I can say from personal.experience it changes those even with the most unshakable of convictions and morals. I would feed and clothe a jihaddist long before I did so for a thief's (as a die hard patriot that's a serious statement... just to put thiefs into context.. this is where I hold them) so.as.someone whom hate thieves and takes a moral stand against all they stand for I can honestly admit I went clepto as fuck on tweak. I wish I could say that was the only moral I lost track of but sadly that's probably the least severe.. tho I never blew anyone or sold myself lol. People are people unless they're on drugs.. then they simply become that drug. Not every thief is a tweaker but every tweaker is a thief.

But o.k. lets judge hem based on actions. Theirs actions of late are smoke Meth and steal shit all the while the taxpayer foots the bill to feed their countless crack babies. Again. I support testing for drugs before ur allowed any kind of public assistance. If u fail all u should get from anyone is a business card and a ride to rehab. Again his is Meth speed crack ... drugs.. not cannabis
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I wanna state first that I do not view cannabis as a drug and feel that such a thought should be expressed before I comment on drug testing.
I disagree. Weed is a drug; therein lies both its medicinal and its psychotropic utility.
I do believe u should have to piss in a cup for welfare. I had to pee in one to help pay for it. But if your going out getting tweaked on Meth. Well you made yourself your own problem and should not be a problem of the tax payers. I don't like the thought if my tax money supporting tweakers. If u can't prove ur devoted enough to recovery to get clean from a deadly drug like Meth or heroin then I don't believe you'll use welfare for its intention. Welfare is temporary assistance but many have made it a career path. I work at a grocery store and daily I see sickening situations. Its not JUST me being a judgemental dick. I live in a very small town and am familiar with nearly everyone's story. I know many of these people are cooking Meth. I watch them send their kids down to buy the lobster crab corn and other produce when its on sale then go down the street and sale it as fresh for 2x the money. Its a daily event. Perhaps its more prevelant in my life because where I worked having to see it daily. But I truly believe that if u piss for anything but weed or a prescribed drug (in recommended doses) you should be denied any assistance but rehab until you can prove your worth a societal investment.
I would think we need to define what welfare is. There are several programs by which governments pay out support checks to various individuals. there's unemployment, there's AFDC if they still call it that, and there's, say, SSDI.
I personally think meth is a filthy drug that is singularly good at breaking previously functional people. But i cannot countenance a graded drug policy based on what ultimately has to be a subjective impression of that drug's harmfulness. I'm for derestricting all drugs, but setting legal boundaries on behavior. Imo a lot of drug testing is driven by insurers extorting employers these days. I'm amused by Racer's proposal to test judges, Senators et al. ... it would be poetic, but still incorporates the idea that drug testing is moral.
Abortion... the interesting one lol. I realize the irrationality of my views toward this one fully. However that doesn't change the fact that my mind enjoys the thought (of the jury not abortion). First off... officially let me say in terms of abortion... its not something I can condone.. its not something I would support. However I am not the type that will crudity you for a personal choice. I don't wish to hear about it but I would hope that those involved wouldn't hope to speak of it... if they do well then abortion is likely the least of their issue.. that said I would be perfectly o.k. with people having to face the peers judgment before being granted permission. Anyone can argue the idea of pregnancy and parameters of abortion but its can't be disputed that life begins at conception.. (intelligent life? Probably not hats another debate)
Life begins even before conception. At conception, we get a new life that is on its way to being human. Imo it is valuable however to assign personhood ... the crucial step from "human" (my molars are human, after all) to "a human", a person with reasonable expectations of societal recognition and protection.
But a life none the less and I value that greatly. Therefore I couldn't support it. I think its reasonable that unless it directly effects the welfare if the mother or is a product of rape.. the person(s) responsible for conception should have to convince at least 7 of 12 that they should be allow to terminate. I don't think "cause.I'm 15" is a reasonable excuse. They'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that an abortion would be the best option for everyone involved. But thus is one of those personal struggles I speak of because.my morals and heart feel such however my mind thinks

We are a world with limited room and resources and a living diversity that is unfathomable. Much like growing weed more nitrogen wont fix a k deficiency. My mind says hey.. its brutal but China's kinda got the right idea.. I know.ill catch shit for this.... but a 2 child limit is something I wouldn't exactly object to...immediate all fucked up lol. I love all life.. however in order to sustain that life much must be culled to allow for another. If u think orphanages are full now what about if there were no abortion? Population would explode and earth could be exhausted 20% sooner than projected. But were still a moral society and its wrong to kill the living.. I guess I'm one of those few who still battles moral over necessity for longevity.

Wow I'm way off track here lol. I believe that if u want to terminate an otherwise healthy conception through consensual means.. you should have to have a damn good reason... one good enough to sway the majority at least.. again.. I realize its impractical.. I try not and focus.on the things that don't directly effect my life. This "I didn't enjoy this so noone else should" attitude has a lot to do with mjs continued prohibition so I try not and perpetuate it. But sometimes its hard to not be the pessimist.

"The sooner the world comes around to my way of thinking the better off well all be" is not the approach I'm trying to convey hear.. so I hope I did not.
The rest of your post presumes that i accept as a premise that the early conceptus is a person. Imo there are two good places to look for the start of personhood: one is the traditional one of "the quickening", the time when the mother can first feel her fetus move.
The other is the age at which the fetus, if delivered prematurely, can survive ex utero with normal levels of hospital care.

My beef with assigning personhood to early is that it raises an uttelry artificial hurdle to allowing abortions. Don't get me wrong! I view abortion as a consequential and distasteful option and procedure. I do not countenance late-term abortions unless they're extraordinary, and the life of the baby and mother are in the balance.
But I cannot see a defensible reason for banning or tightly restricting abortion that doesn't ultimately end in religious belief or feeling, e.g. sanctity of life. And I reflexively oppose anything that ends up beached on the shores of circular reasoning, essentially "because someone said so".

We've had such soft lives that unless we've served in combat, we've forgotten that relative valuation of human lives is often unavoidable. Considering lives to be beyond the hard decisions is a luxury of our times, and one that i predict won't hold. cn
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
As broadsides go, that wasn't very violent, and I especially like the self-doubt woven into the fabric. I'm beginning to like you. I will address the meat of your long post ... but without haste. cn
Like I said I realize the impracticalities if many of my views. They're ones I don't typically discuss or advocate cause well if they sound impractical to the source how would they be percieved by a subject? Lol. But I also realize many of us have true honest feelings towards many things that we chose not to vocalize simply because we know they're somewhat impractical or even unethical to a degree. But the reality is hard choices will be made and its important that we talk about it all even the taboo stuff because while it may not be in our life there will be a time when we reach critical mass and things like capping the amount of children per family will need to at the least be addressed. We know earth can't sustain us forever. Call it selfish crazy or even selfless but I personally am willing to make hard choices and big sacrifices to ensure that my future generations will be allowed to see the very wonders we grew up with. Hell.. just to ensure a future generation period be that sacrificing my abilityto reproduce to cut diwn on population growth lol. And I'm not tryig to sound like a sky is falling type or the like. Realistically its not likey to be an issue we address in this life but he more discussion there is about it the easier the choices are to make later.
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
Ex: sex in the 50s sex in 2010. It was taboo and people didn't talk about it often but those who kept opening up conversations helped remove the stigma. Now u can pay 1.20 in Tijuana to watch a donkey take some poor chola to pound town. Lol
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
I wish it were so simple. As someone whom has recovered from the effects of Meth I can say from personal.experience it changes those even with the most unshakable of convictions and morals. I would feed and clothe a jihaddist long before I did so for a thief's (as a die hard patriot that's a serious statement... just to put thiefs into context.. this is where I hold them) so.as.someone whom hate thieves and takes a moral stand against all they stand for I can honestly admit I went clepto as fuck on tweak. I wish I could say that was the only moral I lost track of but sadly that's probably the least severe.. tho I never blew anyone or sold myself lol. People are people unless they're on drugs.. then they simply become that drug. Not every thief is a tweaker but every tweaker is a thief.

But o.k. lets judge hem based on actions. Theirs actions of late are smoke Meth and steal shit all the while the taxpayer foots the bill to feed their countless crack babies. Again. I support testing for drugs before ur allowed any kind of public assistance. If u fail all u should get from anyone is a business card and a ride to rehab. Again his is Meth speed crack ... drugs.. not cannabis
Well I think patriotism is stupid. Pride and loyalty to a country based solely on where you happen to be born just makes no sense to me. You could have just as easily been born in canada, or india, or australia. I don't understand blind patriotism. But anyway...

So your proposed action is to punish innocent children by taking away their only source of food?
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
I disagree. Weed is a drug; therein lies both its medicinal and its psychotropic utility. I would think we need to define what welfare is. There are several programs by which governments pay out support checks to various individuals. there's unemployment, there's AFDC if they still call it that, and there's, say, SSDI.
I personally think meth is a filthy drug that is singularly good at breaking previously functional people. But i cannot countenance a graded drug policy based on what ultimately has to be a subjective impression of that drug's harmfulness. I'm for derestricting all drugs, but setting legal boundaries on behavior. Imo a lot of drug testing is driven by insurers extorting employers these days. I'm amused by guy's proposal to test judges, Senators et al. ... it would be poetic, but still incorporates the idea that drug testing is moral. Life begins even before conception. At conception, we get a new life that is on its way to being human. Imo it is valuable however to assign personhood ... the crucial step from "human" (my molars are human, after all) to "a human", a person with reasonable expectations of societal recognition and protection.

The rest of your post presumes that i accept as a premise that the early conceptus is a person. Imo there are two good places to look for the start of personhood: one is the traditional one of "the quickening", the time when the mother can first feel her fetus move.
The other is the age at which the fetus, if delivered prematurely, can survive ex utero with normal levels of hospital care.

My beef with assigning personhood to early is that it raises an uttelry artificial hurdle to allowing abortions. Don't get me wrong! I view abortion as a consequential and distasteful option and procedure. I do not countenance late-term abortions unless they're extraordinary, and the life of the baby and mother are in the balance.
But I cannot see a defensible reason for banning or tightly restricting abortion that doesn't ultimately end in religious belief or feeling, e.g. sanctity of life. And I reflexively oppose anything that ends up beached on the shores of circular reasoning, essentially "because someone said so".

We've had such soft lives that unless we've served in combat, we've forgotten that relative valuation of human lives is often unavoidable. Considering lives to be beyond the hard decisions is a luxury of our times, and one that i predict won't hold. cn
Insane......ly well put. Like I said with abortion its a battle within myself so I try and avoid having that battle with others as I'm not entirely sure where I stand.. too case by case. And again as u said extremely well. There's no way to reform abortion without any implication of religious preference. Based on those two facts its not something I advocate but again, my mind does like the thought of making someone convince 7 others they should be allowed to end a life. (Sick I know. But to me its no sicker than abortion itself.) My biggest Issue is he internal struggle between what intellect thinks and emotion feels. I suspect we all do it just seems perhaodls I allow mine to have more effect than necessary on me.

I'm honestly envious of he means.in which you verse your arguments lol. U make solid points without it being personal. I like your rationale.

In terms of welfare well just have to agree to disagree. Entitlements in general are growing insanely ridiculous IMO. Veterans and the elderly should be cared for undoubtedly but otherwise u should need to piss. If u lived a long working life and retired or risked your life and limb for my liberties u better believe I will do for u as I can when I can. I always but for militaryif they happen to be where I'm eating or gassing up. I guess what I'm getting at is my idea of governments role is very unconventional in comparison to most.

I feel like I'm talking in circles here lol. This is why I don't get into these things I lack the attention spanand vocabulary to properly explain myself or stay on a particular topic lol
 
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