cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
that gave me a chuckle.
War
- Thread starter captainmorgan
- Start date
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Even though I do...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I notice he is doing it outside of town in the middle of nowhere!
printer
Well-Known Member
Please explain what part of "leave an outlet free" I do not understand. I will explain my point afterwards.
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
Great, but you've not said why Sun Tzu's words are wrong here. In what scenario are we best to ignore the words:
"When you surround an army, leave an outlet free."
I'm not dissing you, I'm just wondering why anyone would have complaint with that line.
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
So what alternative were you trying to explain? You started your post with "no" to what part did you mean "no" to?
printer
Well-Known Member
The Russians are holding thousands of Ukrainian POW. Do you think they will just give them back at the end of the war? You do not even know that prisoner exchanges are done on a one to one ratio? That soldiers that surrender hope for a return home some day and that they expect their country to try to get them back? I do not understand what part of this you do not understand.
printer
Well-Known Member
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
That's fantastic and has nothing to do with
"When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. "
What did you say "no" to there? What part of that statement did you disagree with?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
All I'm saying it depends on circumstance and in war absolute rules don't apply. Take for instance dividing your forces, that is what the Ukrainians appear to have done, though they have short internal lines of communication and can move forces from the south to the east overnight. I guess the problem with the line, is while it is a consideration, it is not an absolute rule, it depends on the objective. Perhaps something was lost in the translation or through the passage of time, Sun Tzu would have destroyed a surrounded enemy if it was to his advantage to do so and left them a way out if he figured that was best. If you let them run into the swamps sometimes, they won't come out the other side. Also an ancient army that is scattered and on the run is a frightened mob and not a threat, scare the Jesus out of them and let them run for the Hills rather than your guys getting killed for nothing fighting them.
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Lobbing a few thousand shells into the place would get the attention of the Russians and most of the remaining army in Ukraine would redeploy in a hurry inside Russia!
printer
Well-Known Member
When an army can do harm to you then at times it is good to leave an exit. But when you can capture them it is a good idea to do it. Would you like me to repeat that but slower?
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
So you think that we shouldn't offer an encircled enemy a way out? What "ancient" reason was there that this was good advice in the past?
Do you even understand why "When you surround an army, leave an outlet free" is good advice? No offence like, but do you?
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
No, I'd like you to answer my question.
What part of the statement "When you surround an army, leave an outlet free" do you disagree with? Are you somehow under the illusion that a cornered enemy is a safe enemy?
printer
Well-Known Member
That would not be wise, that is some attention they would not want. If they had overwhelming strength then maybe. At the moment they do not have the ammo to get the Russians out of Ukraine.Lobbing a few thousand shells into the place would get the attention of the Russians and most of the remaining army in Ukraine would redeploy in a hurry inside Russia!
JamieThePainter
Well-Known Member
I really need to question your sources on that one. Wars are not fought on ammunition alone.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Usually it's a binary choice these days, surrender or be destroyed and when you are out of ammo and fuel, you cannot fight. Good terms of surrender and good treatment are ways out too and the Ukrainians are exploiting this. However war criminals might be desperate and their options rather constrained.
printer
Well-Known Member
144 Ukraine Fighters Freed from Russian Captivity in Prisoner Exchange
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry announced on Wednesday that 144 of the country’s fighters were freed from Russian captivity via “an exchange mechanism” and that nearly 100 of the freed fighters had participated in the defense of the Ukrainian coastal city of Mariupol.
Earlier, a leading Ukrainian parliamentarian told VOA that Kyiv and Moscow were undergoing a process of prisoner exchange and that Roman Abramovich, a Russian businessman with ties to Putin, was playing “an active role” in the talks.
Hours later, in his nightly address to the nation, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the development “optimistic and very important.” Zelenskyy said 59 of the soldiers that returned to Ukraine were members of the National Guard, followed by 30 servicemen with the Navy, 28 who had served in the Army, 17 with Border Guards and 9 who fought as territorial defense soldiers and one had been a policeman.
“The oldest of the liberated is 65 years old, the youngest is 19,” he said in the video broadcast. “In particular,” Zelenskyy added, “95 Azovstal defenders return[ed] home.”
Wednesday’s news came on the heels of an announcement a day earlier that 17 Ukrainians, including 16 servicemen and one civilian, were freed from Russian captivity in an exchange that saw 15 Russians released and that the bodies of 46 fallen Ukrainian soldiers returned home. In return, Ukraine handed Russia 40 of their fallen servicemen. Among the 46 fallen Ukrainian fighters, 21 took part in the defense of Azovstal, according to the Ukrainian government.
144 Ukraine Fighters Freed from Russian Captivity in Prisoner Exchange
Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich plays an active role in talks between Ukraine and Russia concerning prisoner exchange, a Ukrainian official told VOA
www.voanews.com
Maybe the 144 Russian soldiers should have been left to run away?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It is a major supply hub for the Russians, they can limit strikes to military, transport and logistics targets. The point is it would cause a major redeployment of Russian forces in a blocking defensive posture, then an offense to drive them back out of range. It would be more of a diversion than an attack, they already hit the place several times, but artillery kinda changes things! Something to consider, I think it is in 155mm range from the border?