WTF am I doing wrong?

oill

Well-Known Member
Two 100W (draw) and a recently added 150W HPS.
Battling humidity... I can't get it above 30% (currently 21%). Running a warm mist humidifier outside the tent and a 5 gallon bucket with towel inside.
It's miracle grow (yeah.... I know)
Been watering when the soil is dry and inch or so deep.
Temperature was staying around 72° with lights on, and now I'm sitting at 82° with the added HPS.
The plant on the left is one day older than the plant on the left, and the little guy is 10 days old. The two are about three weeks.
Been watering with tap water. I haven't been adjust sting pH because of what people say in here. I'm going to start dialing it down next waterings because I feel I should. Tap pH is 7.5, 45 ppm.
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Why so many lights for such tiny plants? Turn off and leave on of the leds on til they are bigger. Maybe get a heater to compensatenon temp.

Is that coco or soil? I know you said soil... but looks a bit like coco.

You defo need the correct ph as it affects nutrient absorbed.
 
Two 100W (draw) and a recently added 150W HPS.
Battling humidity... I can't get it above 30% (currently 21%). Running a warm mist humidifier outside the tent and a 5 gallon bucket with towel inside.
It's miracle grow (yeah.... I know)
Been watering when the soil is dry and inch or so deep.
Temperature was staying around 72° with lights on, and now I'm sitting at 82° with the added HPS.
The plant on the left is one day older than the plant on the left, and the little guy is 10 days old. The two are about three weeks.
Been watering with tap water. I haven't been adjust sting pH because of what people say in here. I'm going to start dialing it down next waterings because I feel I should. Tap pH is 7.5, 45 ppm.
My first few attempts weren't great (I used miracle gro as well) but I got a bit of smoke and learned a few lessons. As Jahfarmer95 said check out a few YouTube vids for tips etc as these have helped me immensely!

The channels I've found most helpful have been CLTV, Mr Grow it, 420 growers club and for autos Mr Canucks grow and Bill Ward.

Between the above and this forum it's all helped my grow improve a hell of a lot! Just look at the journals in my signature for proof! Still not perfect but heading in the right direction.
 
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Ulf

Active Member
Is this the mg? When you sit the water out is it in the sun? What's the pH of the water out the bottom? Good to hear your not feeding nutes yet. How close is your light?
That's the one. Not in the sun and I have neglected to test the runoff pH. Lights are 18".
 

Ulf

Active Member
Apmost looks like under / over watering with the droop and the curved leafs could be heat stress first guesses , only looked at pic for few seconds tho hah
Well light looks spaced so jk on heat stress unless its just a hot setup for some reason.
I put the HPS in yesterday. The problem has been there for a week before that.
 

Ulf

Active Member
Why so many lights for such tiny plants? Turn off and leave on of the leds on til they are bigger. Maybe get a heater to compensatenon temp.

Is that coco or soil? I know you said soil... but looks a bit like coco.

You defo need the correct ph as it affects nutrient absorbed.
I thought maybe leaf temperature was a problem, so I added the HPS. I turned on the second LED when I did so. I will go back to the one LED. It's soil...I promise lol
 

Ulf

Active Member
I'm using Miracle-Gro, I use the blue bag one, "moisture control." No problems at all with it.

I use fabric pots and bottom watering, which Leads to the top half of my pots being "bone dry", plants don't care one bit, because the roots are all in the bottom half, kinda funny cause I keep seeing people say this is bad... my experience is the total opposite... I just read the plants.

Also using Miracle-Gro plant food 24-8-16 in veg and bloom 15-30-15 in flower. Been told this is wrong too, but my plants say otherwise, they are happy and the two mothers in veg require super cropping regularly to keep em in check. The one flowering is 6 weeks in... no complaints.

Funny thing... I searched it all up when I was starting out, right away you see lots of posts of users saying Miracle-Gro is bad or will kill your plants... but they never have any supporting data, just regurgitate that it's slow release nutes .... omg... the horror.., which means it's just opinion, because there are also lots of users using it with no issues, myself included. I have supporting data, big beautiful plants, and lots of pictures.

The only problem with it? ... it has bugs, Mostly fungus gnats. Easily defeated with my bottom watering and fabric pots.

I learned from reading thousands of posts on this site, and other sites, watching hours and hours of YouTube from growers, and of course just by "reading" the plants.

I also use MarsHydro lights... again, a quick search has lots saying they are junk, and lots saying they are good...so who's right? ..... my plants are doing just fine, that's how I'll judge it.

Let me present a question
- do you have a commercial grade kitchen, that you require for daily usage which includes a freezer and cooler, line cook station, deep fryer, high pressure dishwasher? Do you meal prep every moring for the entire day? How about bathroom with commercial grade urinals and sinks/faucets? How about your backyard? Do you own commercial grade ride on lawn mower just to mow your lawn, then a 5 ton green drop water truck to feed it?

Pretty sure the answer is no for those of us doing a 1 or 2 tent personal grow of a couple plants right?

So why the Frick do people think you need commercial grade equipment, methods, nutes to grow a personal home grow of a couple plants?

IMHO you don't. It's a waste of money.

Lots of pics in my journal using Miracle-Gro and MarsHydro.


I'll check out the journals. When you bottom feed, how much water do you use and how often?
 

Ulf

Active Member
I guess what I can't t figure out is how I'm overwatering when I'm doing it the way I've read is right. Maybe I'm not understanding what I read. I water until it begins to run out the bottom of the pot when the top of the soil is dry up to my knuckle. I make sure there is zero moisture from my knuckle to the tip of my finger.
In the past, I've only ever watered when the pot felt damn near empty of water. I never got a sad, saggy plant doing it that way. Saying that makes me believe (for me) the first knuckle method is a bad idea.
I've also only ever started in party cups. The little one in the back is doing the best out of the three.
Different strains = different needs, but why is the big one so sad looking and the shock Trauma so tiny when they are both maintained the same way?
I'm beginning to think I should start over and do it the way I used to.
 

Killaki

Well-Known Member
I guess what I can't t figure out is how I'm overwatering when I'm doing it the way I've read is right. Maybe I'm not understanding what I read. I water until it begins to run out the bottom of the pot when the top of the soil is dry up to my knuckle. I make sure there is zero moisture from my knuckle to the tip of my finger.
In the past, I've only ever watered when the pot felt damn near empty of water. I never got a sad, saggy plant doing it that way. Saying that makes me believe (for me) the first knuckle method is a bad idea.
I've also only ever started in party cups. The little one in the back is doing the best out of the three.
Different strains = different needs, but why is the big one so sad looking and the shock Trauma so tiny when they are both maintained the same way?
I'm beginning to think I should start over and do it the way I used to.
BAM this is what I needed to know about your watering. Btw over watering causes clawing, which you don't have going on. You are actually waiting too long between waterings. You don't want the soil to get bone dry you want to allow the topsoil to be moist but not sopping wet for days on end. If it's drying out then your plants are drying out which is why they are cupped up towards the light.

That aside, like I said in my other post that soil is going to slowly feed your plants to death. I would change to something that doesn't have slow release nutrients in it, because as you're already aware they don't need to be fed at this stage.
I would also set the water in the sun just for good measure, and maybe raise the light a smidge. Since the plants are drying out some that is leaving them susceptible to light burn (temperature doesn't necessarily have to get out of hand for light burn to occur). All this is possibly compounded if you're struggling with humidity.
Make sure your pH run off is ok and change up a couple things and I'm sure you'll be doing fine in no time.
 

Ulf

Active Member
BAM this is what I needed to know about your watering. Btw over watering causes clawing, which you don't have going on. You are actually waiting too long between waterings. You don't want the soil to get bone dry you want to allow the topsoil to be moist but not sopping wet for days on end. If it's drying out then your plants are drying out which is why they are cupped up towards the light.

That aside, like I said in my other post that soil is going to slowly feed your plants to death. I would change to something that doesn't have slow release nutrients in it, because as you're already aware they don't need to be fed at this stage.
I would also set the water in the sun just for good measure, and maybe raise the light a smidge. Since the plants are drying out some that is leaving them susceptible to light burn (temperature doesn't necessarily have to get out of hand for light burn to occur). All this is possibly compounded if you're struggling with humidity.
Make sure your pH run off is ok and change up a couple things and I'm sure you'll be doing fine in no time.
I see what you're saying here, but here's the problem.
This morning I watered it, and it looks like this
20210116_070018.jpg
I get confused about it. If the leaves are cupping that way from too little water, then why do they go straight to limp mode when they get water. It isn't just this time either.

And then there's this. Maybe it's the gateway to understanding what I'm doing wrong. This little guy here
20210116_065221.jpg
looks like it's starting to want water to me. The cup is still half full weight feeling when I lift it. I normally think "it needs water" and so I do. Then they end up looking like the one above sooner or later.
It's under this light
20210116_065551_HDR.jpg
 

Killaki

Well-Known Member
I see what you're saying here, but here's the problem.
This morning I watered it, and it looks like this
View attachment 4798023
I get confused about it. If the leaves are cupping that way from too little water, then why do they go straight to limp mode when they get water. It isn't just this time either.

And then there's this. Maybe it's the gateway to understanding what I'm doing wrong. This little guy here
View attachment 4798025
looks like it's starting to want water to me. The cup is still half full weight feeling when I lift it. I normally think "it needs water" and so I do. Then they end up looking like the one above sooner or later.
It's under this light
View attachment 4798027
Because when they're drowning they go limp... Prolonged this will lead to the dreaded clawing. But what's happening for you is it's going from a little drowning to a little dehydrated and getting this yoyo effect. The soil probably doesn't have good enough drainage, which is what you expect from straight out the bag MG. If the soil would drain properly then it wouldn't go limp and then you wouldn't have to wait so much between watering causing top soil to dry too much. It's a drainage thing.
Dude seriously. I'm not trying to be a dick but you have to understand, people here want to help but little bits of info here and there will take for fucking ever. It also doesn't help if you have a counter point to constructive criticism, again we're trying to help not talk shit. That said I hope you're seriously considering changing up the soil. If you refuse to get a diff brand at least add some perlite/vermiculite and increase drainage but don't be surprised if you have over feed issues in veg. And lay it all out there in the original post when asking for help, that way we all know what's up and how to help troubleshoot.
 

Ulf

Active Member
Because when they're drowning they go limp... Prolonged this will lead to the dreaded clawing. But what's happening for you is it's going from a little drowning to a little dehydrated and getting this yoyo effect. The soil probably doesn't have good enough drainage, which is what you expect from straight out the bag MG. If the soil would drain properly then it wouldn't go limp and then you wouldn't have to wait so much between watering causing top soil to dry too much. It's a drainage thing.
Dude seriously. I'm not trying to be a dick but you have to understand, people here want to help but little bits of info here and there will take for fucking ever. It also doesn't help if you have a counter point to constructive criticism, again we're trying to help not talk shit. That said I hope you're seriously considering changing up the soil. If you refuse to get a diff brand at least add some perlite/vermiculite and increase drainage but don't be surprised if you have over feed issues in veg. And lay it all out there in the original post when asking for help, that way we all know what's up and how to help troubleshoot.
Please understand that I'm not trying to argue or be disrespectful. I come off that way alot, but I swear I'm not trying to. The responses are just me trying to understand. I apologise if it seems otherwise. It's something I struggle with.

I am getting off of the mg, and I assure you that I am pouring over the advise you and the others are giving to me. I will try harder to word my questions and responses better.

I'm going to start over with good soil, more perlite than I've been using, smaller starting containers, adjusting pH and testing runoff to spot issues better, and I will use my starter LEDs until the plants are ready for the 1 gallon pots.

Thank you all for the help. I'm sorry I come off poorly.
 

Killaki

Well-Known Member
Please understand that I'm not trying to argue or be disrespectful. I come off that way alot, but I swear I'm not trying to. The responses are just me trying to understand. I apologise if it seems otherwise. It's something I struggle with.

I am getting off of the mg, and I assure you that I am pouring over the advise you and the others are giving to me. I will try harder to word my questions and responses better.

I'm going to start over with good soil, more perlite than I've been using, smaller starting containers, adjusting pH and testing runoff to spot issues better, and I will use my starter LEDs until the plants are ready for the 1 gallon pots.

Thank you all for the help. I'm sorry I come off poorly.
It's all good. Sorry if I came across harsh. Not what I intend I just see that you're close to having a successful grow and I want to help you get there. I think you'll be alright just keep at it. Good luck, let me know how it goes.
 
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Severed Tongue

Well-Known Member
I'll check out the journals. When you bottom feed, how much water do you use and how often?
Depends on the plant, the room, the temp, the humidity, the light..... it's specific to yours, so my numbers won't really work for you.

My mother's are in 5 gallon fabric pots, 60% filled with soil, they take 8 cups every 3 days atm.

I have clones in 1 gallon fabric pots, 80% filled, 4-5 nodes of growth, 2 cups of water, going 2 weeks and not needing more yet.

You have to read the plant, and yes even 5 clones of the same plant, each one can have its different timings.

@Killaki please provide some data proving "Miracle-Gro will kill your plants," as I cannot find any.

Please look at my Miracle-Gro grown plants and explain why they are not dying?

20210111_123825.jpg
20210115_170202.jpg
20201211_161014.jpg
This one I grew outside last summer, turned out to be a male, but its Miracle-Gro (same as the flowers on my fence) and all I did was water it. That's a 10 gallon pot fyi, and it grew to 5 feet before I chopped it.
20200814_165303.jpg
 
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Ulf

Active Member
Depends on the plant, the room, the temp, the humidity, the light..... it's specific to yours, so my numbers won't really work for you.

My mother's are in 5 gallon fabric pots, 60% filled with soil, they take 8 cups every 3 days atm.

I have clones in 1 gallon fabric pots, 80% filled, 4-5 nodes of growth, 2 cups of water, going 2 weeks and not needing more yet.

You have to read the plant, and yes even 5 clones of the same plant, each one can have its different timings.

@Killaki please provide some data proving "Miracle-Gro will kill your plants," as I cannot find any.

Please look at my Miracle-Gro grown plants and explain why they are not dying?

View attachment 4798140
View attachment 4798143
View attachment 4798146
This one I grew outside last summer, turned out to be a male, but its Miracle-Gro (same as the flowers on my fence) and all I did was water it. That's a 10 gallon pot fyi, and it grew to 5 feet before I chopped it.
View attachment 4798155
Understood. I realize frequency would be up to how my plants are acting. I was mainly curious about the amount. Would 2 cups for one gallon and 4 cups for 3 gallon be a good baseline to start from? In general I mean.
 

Ulf

Active Member
Because when they're drowning they go limp... Prolonged this will lead to the dreaded clawing. But what's happening for you is it's going from a little drowning to a little dehydrated and getting this yoyo effect. The soil probably doesn't have good enough drainage, which is what you expect from straight out the bag MG. If the soil would drain properly then it wouldn't go limp and then you wouldn't have to wait so much between watering causing top soil to dry too much. It's a drainage thing.
Dude seriously. I'm not trying to be a dick but you have to understand, people here want to help but little bits of info here and there will take for fucking ever. It also doesn't help if you have a counter point to constructive criticism, again we're trying to help not talk shit. That said I hope you're seriously considering changing up the soil. If you refuse to get a diff brand at least add some perlite/vermiculite and increase drainage but don't be surprised if you have over feed issues in veg. And lay it all out there in the original post when asking for help, that way we all know what's up and how to help troubleshoot.
You're kool dude. The leaves are still cupping up, but they aren't sagging and sad as much. The first set is, but the rest isn't. I'm understanding a little better now.
16108392978505718714499359919527.jpg
If you are still up to helping me a bit, can we talk watering from this point?
You said letting the top get dry the way I was doing it should be fixed. How do I determine when it's time to add more water? When you say moist, what are we talking? In my mind, it means kind of like chocolate cake.
Would I be better off taking a more scientific route and weigh the pots wet and dry (I can weigh a dry pot with extra soil I have), then water when it hits a certain weight? I read something that I think said maybe 25% or 35% or 50% of wet weight. I'll find it again to be sure.
I don't want to abandon these plants unless I seriously fuck them up, and I've done worse before and smoked decent bud. I will if I should tho. I have plenty of seeds and am willing to break eggs lol.
 
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