Your fav religious /anti religious vids

Zaehet Strife said:

your beliefs give you the excuse to keep living life like you always have, instead of making changes within your self that you know needs to be done.

For example, when you are younger you play with dolls or action figures ect. And then you get older, you stop playing with them. And its not because you don't like them anymore... its that you've reached a higher level of consciousness. With higher levels of consciousness our behavior changes. A part of being conscious is to observe yourself in everything you think, say and do. Beliefs revoke that responsibility with the idea that (there is a god - god is responsible) (there is not a god - i don't have to be responsible) either way, you wont change much based on either of those aspects. True conscienceless is the essence of true change of self, the responsibility of becoming a better part of you in every situation.

True consciousness will never be attained within the realms of faith or belief, unless you have faith or belief in the only thing you can be sure exists in this time or realm... YOU

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You sound like Deepak Chopra.

Zaehet Strife said:

"That's incorrect. You do not have to deny the existence of god to be an atheist. Sorry to burst your bubble."

re-read my posts, i never said that my friend

The true agnostic, is not atheist, nor is he theist; he is the emanation of true wisdom. The realization of self. The admittance of ignorance. To have true control over the fear of the unknown. That which is the only truth... we do not know, and their search is never-ending. They give themselves no more excuses for their behaviors. Their search is a complete transformation of self, in which this transformation is a never-ending cycle of changing, to become better parts of themselves within each and every moment of existence.

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You are using the term agnostic, as your link says, in the 'popular' sense. Unfortunately, it is widely misused and misunderstood. Huxley coined the term so I go with his definition which means that some things are unknowable or unknown. Theism and atheism ask a different ontological question than gnosticism/agnosticism. There is a true dichotomy, you are either a theist or you are not and therefore an atheist. You are either gnostic in your assessment or agnostic. Trying to make agnosticism as some middle ground between theism and atheism is a popular tactic but linguistically and philosophically incorrect.

The easiest way to explain is to answer the following questions
1. Do you believe that a god or gods exist? A straightforward, yes or no question about your personal belief.
2. Is there a god? This is the only question that legitimately can be answered "I don't know." If you answer 'yes' or 'no' that makes you a gnostic theist or atheist respectively.

I can believe there is a god but honestly answer "I don't know" to the straight up question about actual knowledge.

The definition of agnosticism is one of the more contentious issues - even many agnostics continue to hold to the idea that agnosticism represents some sort of "third way" between atheism and theism. Not only evidence from standard dictionaries but also a careful comparison between agnosticism and other ideas like theism and atheism reveal that calling oneself an agnostic by no mean excludes being either an atheist or a theist.

Limiting oneself to discussing agnosticism as an isolated position fails to do it justice. It was originally conceived by Thomas Henry Huxley as a methodology for approaching religious questions, particularly the existence of God. Even before he coined the term, however, basic agnostic principles had existed for a long time and they have always posed serious challenges to basic premises in theology and religious philosophy. Agnosticism is a skeptical challenge to the notion that any religious conclusion can really be "known" in the first place.
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blag_index.htm

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"1. Do you believe that a god or gods exist? A straightforward, yes or no question about your personal belief."

I do not know, for i refuse to lie to myself and tell myself an absolute where there is none.

Maybe we have yet to make a word for intellectuals who "believe" in the strict sense we are talking metaphysically, that we do not know. I shall call it... Theisagneista. There you have it.

For example, someone tells you a story, and your not sure if what they say is true or not. You do not "know" what to "believe" -Theisagneista, the no-mans land between atheism and theism. Because theists are always trying to make you choose one, which would make me assume you are a theist, but i could be wrong.

Dont try to tell me Theisagneista isnt a word either, because BAM! Just made it up lol. As words are just utterances, vibrations used to describe something.

Theists- you are either with us, or against us! and if you're not sure if you're with us, we condemn you! lol!

How many threads does it take to sew a B.S. blanket?

Zaehet Strife said:

"1. Do you believe that a god or gods exist? A straightforward, yes or no question about your personal belief."

I do not know, for i refuse to lie to myself and tell myself an absolute where there is none.

Maybe we have yet to make a word for intellectuals who "believe" in the strict sense we are talking metaphysically, that we do not know. I shall call it... Theisagneista. There you have it.

For example, someone tells you a story, and your not sure if what they say is true or not. You do not "know" what to "believe" -Theisagneista, the no-mans land between atheism and theism. Because theists are always trying to make you choose one, which would make me assume you are a theist, but i could be wrong.

Dont try to tell me Theisagneista isnt a word either, because BAM! Just made it up lol. As words are just utterances, vibrations used to describe something.

Theists- you are either with us, or against us! and if you're not sure if you're with us, we condemn you! lol!

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UGH - You're making a 3rd option for a question with two answers.

The question; "Do you believe in god" is a yes or no question. There is no other option, you know whether or not you believe, you can lie to us, and try to lie to yourself, but a belief exists or it does not exist. There is no "I don't know" when it comes to your beliefs.

When someone asks you "Does god exist", it's a question about knowledge, not about a belief and "I don't know" is a valid answer to a question of knowledge. Your belief is not knowledge, it's intrinsic to any statement that anyone makes.

Picture this; You are asked to listen to two stories from two different people; the two people cannot see you, have no idea who you are, and will never get the opportunity to see you or know anything about you.

After you hear the two stories you may not know what story is true, but you know what you believe or are at least leaning towards. You may be squeamish about making a decision because you're not 100% sure, but you do have a belief one way or another.

BELIEF: Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
BELIEVE: To accept as true or real
DISBELIEF: Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
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If you do not know, you do not have a belief... If you are not certain if your beliefs are true or real, their is no belief. There is a confusion, uncertainty, unknowing, ignorance.

To say that it is a requirement for a human to have a belief or disbelief in the metaphysical is the utmost of arrogant thoughts.


It seems to me like your point is, that you must either believe or disbelieve in the metaphysical, that there is no in-between. I say that is wrong, that there is a possibility in thought without belief. If we could only come to the realization that our beliefs in the metaphysical, were derived FROM thought.

[/FONT]Thought: An idea or opinion produced by thinking or occurring suddenly in the mind
Our metaphysical beliefs are but thoughts, nothing more. Neither true, nor false... some people just like to claim they are.
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This my friend, is where we must agree to disagree.
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Zaehet Strife said:

BELIEF: Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
BELIEVE: To accept as true or real
DISBELIEF: Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
If you do not know, you do not have a belief...

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If you do not know if god exists or not, you are agnostic. You can still hold a BELIEF that god exists or does not exist alongside you're admittance of ignorance about KNOWING whether god exists or not.

If you are not certain if your beliefs are true or real, their is no belief. There is a confusion, uncertainty, unknowing, ignorance.

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That's not true at all. Are you certain 100% that OJ Simpson was guilty? Or that MJ was guilty? I'm not 100% but I believe that both of them were guilty. You don't have to be certain to have a belief.

To say that it is a requirement for a human to have a belief or disbelief in the metaphysical is the utmost of arrogant thoughts.

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It's not arrogant, it's just a byproduct of being able to articulate thoughts to one another. You say something, I either believe it or I don't. It's how language works my good man. You react to what people say based on your belief that what they say is true, or not true. It's intrinsic to the way we communicate.

It seems to me like your point is, that you must either believe or disbelieve in the metaphysical, that there is no in-between. I say that is wrong, that there is a possibility in thought without belief. If we could only come to the realization that our beliefs in the metaphysical, were derived FROM thought.

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I think that's almost an axiom; that beliefs come from thought. I still feel like you're blurring two very distinct things, the difference between a belief, and knowledge. As soon, as you hear something, anything really, you have to make a judgement based on whether you believe it to be true or not. So, when someone says "I think god exists" to you, your brain automatically goes through this process of either accepting or rejecting the idea. It's not making a claim of knowledge, or knowing, but a claim about belief based on what you know about the claim so far.

Zaehet Strife said:

BELIEF: Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
BELIEVE: To accept as true or real
DISBELIEF: Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
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If you do not know, you do not have a belief... If you are not certain if your beliefs are true or real, their is no belief. There is a confusion, uncertainty, unknowing, ignorance.

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:Clap: Yay! You got it. You do not have a belief.

To say that it is a requirement for a human to have a belief or disbelief in the metaphysical is the utmost of arrogant thoughts.

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NO! You cannot associate disbelief with lack of belief. That has been the whole point! Disbelief is a different category than non-belief. Disbelief requires that you have been convinced that something is not true. It is a belief itself.

If you are on a jury, your job is to come out with a guilty or not guilty verdict. If you are unconvinced by the evidence the prosecution presents, you must vote not-guilty. You might think the person is innocent or guilty, but that isn't the question asked. The question asked is whether the evidence is enough to accept a guilty verdict.

This is the same as the claim that a god exists. You can say you believe the evidence or you can say you are unconvinced. If you are unconvinced, then you don't believe. You can accept that there may be a god, but you don't believe because no one has given you sufficient reason to believe. As you point out, belief is the psychological state where you accept something as true. If that doesn't apply to you, then you fall into the don't believe category but not necessarily the disbelief one.

Thought: An idea or opinion produced by thinking or occurring suddenly in the mind
Our metaphysical beliefs are but thoughts, nothing more. Neither true, nor false... some people just like to claim they are.

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To claim to have put any amount of thought into the subject and not be able to formulate a belief one way or another sounds disingenuous. Being unwilling to commit to a belief is understandable, but to say you can't say whether you believe or not, well, that just makes me think you don't give the subject any thought.

you can't have any sort of belief if no thought is present. so i stick by my opinion, that beliefs must be derived from thought. thoughts are ideas, belief is the attempt at putting truth behind your thoughts. (STRICTLY METAPHYSICALLY SPEAKING) yet again were just gonna have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, thinking about beliefs is the same thing as thinking about thoughts... i think about thoughts all day long, but at least i understand that is just what they are, thoughts. i do not try to turn my own thoughts of the metaphysical into truth or beliefs, for i understand that they are thoughts... nothing more, nothing less.

Zaehet Strife said:

you can't have any sort of belief if no thought is present. so i stick by my opinion, that beliefs must be derived from thought. thoughts are ideas, belief is the attempt at putting truth behind your thoughts. (STRICTLY METAPHYSICALLY SPEAKING) yet again were just gonna have to agree to disagree.

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And as I pointed out, if you don' have any sort of belief, then you are a non-believer, hence an atheist.

lol!!! to understand that your metaphsycal beliefs are just thoughts, just ideas that you create... that only you can put truth or false behind them if you need to, if you must. or you can be wise, and understand that to put false or truth behind your metaphysical ideas...is pure arrogance, for how can you know if your thoughts about the metaphysical are true or false? you cannot, you just tell yourself that you do, so you can feel better whilst inside of your ignorance.

to not put true or false behind your beliefs which derive from thoughts/ideas takes courage, courage in the face of the unknown. to accept your ignorance in the face of the unknown is something i would like to call... Theisagneista! LOL!

Zaehet Strife said:

to not put true or false behind your beliefs which derive from thoughts/ideas takes courage, courage in the face of the unknown. to accept your ignorance in the face of the unknown is something i would like to call... Theisagneista! LOL!

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You can't have a belief and fail to assign it as true, or at least reasonably true, that's why we hold beliefs because we think they're true. You have to believe that your belief is true, or it's not a belief; it's disbelief. Which is actually still a belief, just the negative form of a belief.

You're asking to see a 'married bachelor' in essence.

"Some scientists when canvassing these issues of philosophical theology may prefer to call themselves ‘agnostics’ rather than ‘atheists’ because they have been over impressed by a generalised philosophical scepticism or by a too simple understanding of Popper's dictum that we can never verify a theory but only refute it. Such a view would preclude us from saying quite reasonably that we know that the Sun consists largely of hydrogen and helium. When we say ‘I know’ we are saying something defeasible. If later we discover that though what we said was at the time justified, it nevertheless turned out to be false, we would say ‘I thought I knew but I now see that I didn't know’. Never or hardly ever to say ‘I know’ would be to deprive these words of their usefulness, just as the fact that some promises have to be broken does not deprive the institution of promising of its legitimacy."

Beefbisquit said:

You can't have a belief and fail to assign it as true. You have to believe that your belief is true, or it's not a belief; it's disbelief. Which is actually still a belief, just the negative form of a belief.

You're asking to see a 'married bachelor' in essence.

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Not if you understand that beliefs are thoughts.

just because you can't admit within yourselves that you do not know, does not mean that i can't. Theisagneista

Zaehet Strife said:

Not if you understand that beliefs are thoughts.

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...so what are convictions?

Zaehet Strife said:

... Theisagneista! LOL!

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Gesundheit! cn

Zaehet Strife said:

just because you can't admit within yourselves that you do not know, does not mean that i can't. Theisagneista

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It has nothing to do with admitting you "don't know", I know I don't know lots of things, but my beliefs are based upon what is most likely, because I care the beliefs I hold are true, or as close to true as could reasonably be expected.

Not if you understand that beliefs are thoughts.

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Beliefs are not thoughts, beliefs are derived from thoughts. A thought is the means to having a belief, a requirement of having a belief is "thinking" about a proposition or statement, but a belief isn't a thought itself anymore than an emotion is a thought. Emotions are the product of thoughts, you think about something and then you feel an emotion based upon that thought, but emotions are not thoughts themselves. They are distinct, just like beliefs are distinct from thoughts.

Thought is to hypothesis and experimentation, as belief is to conclusions.

Zaehet Strife said:

just because you can't admit within yourselves that you do not know, does not mean that i can't. Theisagneista

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Not knowing is a different questions. We are saying do you have a good reason to believe in a deity? If you don't have good reason, then you THINK that you are unconvinced. You sill seem to be confusing the lack of a belief with disbelief. If you don't believe, i.e. hold as a truth in your thoughts, that a god exists, then by definition, you are a non-believer. Non-believer is also called atheistic because they are not a theist. You should be able to answer yes or no to the question, "are you a theist?" "I don't know" would be a non-sequitur and means you don't even know your own thoughts.