1000w Citizen CLU048 1212 Garden

Milliardo Peacecraft

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member
dandyrandy said:
5¢ a kW here
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yeah man I'm only out 6 cents here, that's why efficiency doesn't really matter to me. I really think it all boils down to wattage. They say the worms can't be cheated, no amount of pinching and bargaining will make 700 watts stack up to a 1000. I think a lot of you guys would do a lot better using cheaper chips and more expensive thermal management. Like I've got my CLUs slapping at 1400mA (I think the test current is 1080), but my case temperature never gets over 30C because I use immense heatsinks with three fans per bar. Those pin-fin things are kind of a joke, all the ones I've used (120mm and 140mm anodized black ones) get screaming hot if there's not a fan blowing directly at them.

tldr: Wattage is more important than anything, followed by case/junction temperature, lastly a COB's intrinsic efficiency.
 
Growmau5

Growmau5

Well-Known Member
you have an interesting thread going here with some nice real world, real grow examples to back your theories. Ill look forward to following along.

Milliardo Peacecraft said:
Wattage is more important than anything
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wattage is still so misleading when it comes to LEDs. I would say photons above all, since that's what our plants use.

Milliardo Peacecraft said:
Those pin-fin things are kind of a joke, all the ones I've used (120mm and 140mm anodized black ones) get screaming hot if there's not a fan blowing directly at them
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any heatsink is going to be pretty fucking hot in a stagnant room. and if a grow room is stagnant, there are larger issues at play, lol.
 
Milliardo Peacecraft

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member
Fuck yeah I got mau5 peepin. Yeah I'm just waiting for someone to make a plastic bracket for those pin things to house a 90mm fan. For my purposes, I can't really have a lot of overhead circulation obviously. I like that rig you've got going with that huge circulating fan on the ceiling seems ideal for pin-fins, I'd just rather keep it simple and get big fat chucks of metal and ziptie fans to them.

I feel like wattage is a pretty good yardstick as long as you stay within the test of the COB and cool it adequately. For the CLUs, the plateau doesn't really set in until 1800mA, and with temps in check, I almost think they're brighter than a 3070 in the equivalent setup. Something really bugs me about ceramic substrates, it just makes way more sense to me to be bonding metallic to metallic. Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like my 3590 bars get hotter than my CLUs, and the buds just aren't the kind of quality I'm getting with cheaper chips. Again, I'm not much of a theory guy, I'm just following my nose.

Plus I feel like there might be huge differences between different blue dice being used as photon pumps. Does Cree use gallium nitride dice? I read on their website that they use "silicon carbide" but I know companies like Plessey just sort of recently found a way to grow gallium nitride on a silicon carbide substrate, if that's what Cree was referring to.
 
OLD MOTHER SATIVA

OLD MOTHER SATIVA

Well-Known Member
3590 bars get hotter than my CLUs, and the buds just aren't the kind of quality I'm getting with cheaper chips.

this is watt for watt?

andare the citzens are being run soft like the 50% of the wattage..like 3590's...?

26 cent kwh here and rising...you can see how we need less watts compared to hps if we can....and yes cheaper setup cost

exciting thread!
 
Milliardo Peacecraft

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member
Yeah that's watt for watt, and the citizens are actually being run at 130% of their test current, but they are being cooled over-zealously. They aren't exceeding their maximum by any means. Considering their standard operational case temp being 80C @ 1080 and running 30C @ 1400 with my rig, I should be, theoretically, sitting right next to a 3070 for $13. Cree's ceramic substrate definitely has more thermal mass than the thin aluminum of the Citizen series, I'm under the impression that it is easier to maintain lower operating temperatures with citizens because they have lower thermal resistance than CXBs. Plus I really appreciate the M3 holes being on the COB themselves. I love solderless options as much as the next guy, but it's nice to have the chip tapped directly onto the heatsink. The solder pads on Citizens are absolute shite though, a word of warning to anyone interested in them.
 
OLD MOTHER SATIVA

OLD MOTHER SATIVA

Well-Known Member
"the citizens are actually being run at 130% of their test current,"<--- so you are running them at almost full wattage ..

[or more than full wattage?] and still getting

efficient numbers because they are easier to cool and/or thats the sweet spot for citizen?

if so that sure would cut down on number of cobs needed....

now we need some highly efficient drivers at a cheaper price

though the hlg-120h-48's i got were discounted
 
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Milliardo Peacecraft

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member

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klx

klx

Well-Known Member
How fast do your mums veg up under those COBS after a round of cuts?

I use a 400W HPS for my mums cos I need 50 good, strong clones every couple of weeks and need them to come back fast after each round of cuts. It works well but if I could get the same kind of regrowth under 200W of COBS it would be sweet.
 
Milliardo Peacecraft

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member
Dude you'd do well with COB lights for your mothers. That's why I'm always cutting mine down, they just to too wild for me, and I take a shitload of cuts. I took 14 cuts off my Dr. Who mom last week and there's already two nodes on each new shoot. Of course that Dr. Who has the most insane vigor I've ever seen, as a caveat.

Also they're under 450w of COBs, so that's not going to be apples to apples.

Here's that Who in flower, Dr. Who is criminally underrated:
 

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coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
@Milliardo Peacecraft @BOBBY_G
Do either of you know if the 1825s on the DIY COB CALCULATOR are the older version 4 ones? I assume they are, or are they CLU058s (version 5) which boast 7% extra luminous efficiency than the previous? Or are they a different CLU entirely.
Same question applies to all the Citizens on the CALC, version 4s? The price for the 058-1825c are almost the same as the cxb3590s so am trying to figure out if they are as efficient. I have familiarised myself with the cree chips but struggling with the Citizens and don't have the mathematical knowhow to figure out the efficiency myself.
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
which DIY cob calculator we talkin about?

058-1825 are cheaper than CXB3590 and beat them across the board
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
which DIY cob calculator we talkin about?

058-1825 are cheaper than CXB3590 and beat them across the board
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This one. Are there others I can download?
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-cob-led-calculator.890214/
I cant find any citizens that come close to the 64% of the cxb3590s run at 700mA (according to calc figures)
I was hoping the 058 would. The prices I have are based on the best I can get the CXBs vs the Best I can get the CLU058-1825
Both are about £31 each. I may not have as many options as you been in my part of the world, but I have seen the 058-1825 for as high as £54 compared to cxb3590 £44 both digikey prices, not the best prices I have found.
I see everyone talking about the new Citizens beating the Cree but cant figure out where or how they are. Don't get me wrong, I believe you, I am just missing the important facts I guess.
 
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