And so God made a liberal

LIBERTYCHICKEN said:

I love that we have so many liberals hear that love to bitch about fossil fuels

but run 1000 w + of light.............

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The majority of my electricity comes from a wind farm, don't make presumptions.

BigNBushy said:

I clearly stated my opinion, which is that we will never run out of oil...

Clarlie ur readin constipation has felt you?

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what have you to back up this claim?

[h=2] [/h]

Uncle Ben said:

Now that IS stupid. Guess the construction, maintenance and operation will be done by fairies.

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In January of 2010, Trans-Canada CEO Russell Girling claimed that the project would produce 13,000 construction jobs. In April of 2011 the number grew to 20,000, which the Canadian Ambassador reiterated in August 2011. In January 2012 the number was revised back down to 13,000 and this past April the company revised that number even lower, to 9,000 construction jobs. Meanwhile, both the federal government and the Global Labor Institute at Cornell University’s College of Industrial and Labor Relations examined TransCanada’s application and made their own job creation estimates, at 6,000-6,500 and 2,500-4,500 respectively. A State Department study projects only 35 permanent jobs in pipeline maintenance and inspection. Although it seems likely that the Keystone XL Pipeline’s application will eventually be approved by the Obama Administration, firmer numbers will not be available until the project gets underway. - Forbes


That ain't very many fairies, and they say only about 35 pixies. So your tradeoff is impinging on U.S. citizen held land rights (emminent domain), endangering their local water supplies, their grazing land, their crops and the aquifer - the last possibly affecting hundreds of thousands if not millions, for 35 permanent jobs.

This isn't about jobs at all. China is employing tens of thousands making solar panels. Germany is employing thousands making wind turbines, both of which we are forced to import,making us consumers rather than producers of the technologies that will employ even more and put some countries ahead of others. So far we will not be among them quibbling about a few thousand temporary jobs in the service of out of the country manufacturers who will benefit for years to come from our temporary efforts.

Not very smart thinking.

ChesusRice said:

The Ogallala Aquifer is a vast, shallow water table aquifer located beneath the Great Plains in the United States. One of the world's largest aquifers, it underlies an area of approximately 174,000 mi² (450,000 km²) in portions of eight states: (South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas). It was named in 1898 by N.H. Darton from its type locality near the town of Ogallala, Nebraska. The aquifer is part of the High Plains Aquifer System, and rests on the Ogallala Formation, which is the principal geologic unit underlying 80% of the High Plains.[SUP][1][/SUP]
About 27 percent of the irrigated land in the United States overlies the aquifer, which yields about 30 percent of the ground water used for irrigation in the United States. Since 1950, agricultural irrigation has reduced the saturated volume of the aquifer by an estimated 9%. Depletion is accelerating, with 3% lost between 2001 and 2008 alone. Certain aquifer zones are now empty; these areas will take over 100,000 years to replenish naturally through rainfall.
The aquifer system supplies drinking water to 82 percent of the 2.3 million people (1990 census) who live within the boundaries of the High Plains study area


AND we want to route a Oil pipeline over this? For the benefit of a Canadian Oil company and the Cock Brothers?

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In the interest of honesty, the company has agreed to route the pipeline around the major portions of the aquifer. in the long run however, a major spill, and there have been many eminating from this companie's pipelines would eventually ruin grounds and ground water and in the very longest run, still leak into the major aquifer.

Doer said:

That is the biggest lie, my girl.

Totally debunked.

And you fell for it. So, now, you can say, ole Doer's is being full of shit as usual, or join the crowd that does not write this off immediately.

IOW, you to can become a thinking liberal. Don't use the Church logic....would not a sane person, object to fraking?.....no.

Only the un-informed and emotion tapered will join the evil Saganists on this one.

We have been fraking this country for 70 years. And don't worry. FL is already well fraked by the water table and all there is, is water.

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Here is the bit ploy the "it has been debunked" ploy. The dangers of fracking has NOT been debunked and if anything has been constantly proven to be a danger. I wonder, have the earthquakes around Texas and other states caused by fracking been "debunked" as well? have the spoiled wells and lakes been debunked?

No, that is the best defense big energy has, to put some single geoscientist up before congress and postulate that their must be some OTHER cause of the problems the locals have encountered shortly after they have come adrilling. I hasten to remind you that fracking companies refuse to even list the ingredients of their fracking concoctions let alone let us know their effects upon animal and humanhealth.

Always inject doubt into scientific converstations and then claim that in itself is "debunking".

see4 said:

Various videos would say you are wrong. Could you please provide us with a link and/or video that shows fracking is not harmful to nearby water supplies.

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There are studies that indicate with great certainty however, that some of the chemicals flowing from fracking proceedures enhance the bulbosity and purple color of erections.

canndo said:

Here is the bit ploy the "it has been debunked" ploy. The dangers of fracking has NOT been debunked and if anything has been constantly proven to be a danger. I wonder, have the earthquakes around Texas and other states caused by fracking been "debunked" as well? have the spoiled wells and lakes been debunked?

No, that is the best defense big energy has, to put some single geoscientist up before congress and postulate that their must be some OTHER cause of the problems the locals have encountered shortly after they have come adrilling. I hasten to remind you that fracking companies refuse to even list the ingredients of their fracking concoctions let alone let us know their effects upon animal and humanhealth.

Always inject doubt into scientific converstations and then claim that in itself is "debunking".

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coca cola, KFC (so racist) and Mc Donalds dont share with the congress their secret recipes either. cuz congress cant keep a secret.

perhaps these products also contain "chemicals" or GMO's, or the blood of chrisitan children, or some other Blood Libel you can hurl into the void.

theres lots of secret formulas you dont get to know, discuss and pre-approve.

but theres one thing thats sure, fracking "chemicals" include the dangerous, potentially lethal chemicals, bentonite and dihydrous monoxide as their major constituents.


Think of the Children!

lilroach said:

Where they went wrong with Obamacare is that they did not address the issues that are increasing the cost of healthcare, which they should have done first before implementing a trillion-dollar plan. The cost of forcing competition across state lines....zip....and would make 1,300 different insurance companies be competitive instead of the handful we have in each state. The cost of ensuring doctors don't order expensive test only to cover their asses legally.....zip.....and we wouldn't have to get an MRI for a headache.

But instead, we have a new healthcare that requires 16,500 NEW IRS agents, a bloated program that has a good possibility of getting pushed back forever because it's not workable, exemptions to politically favored organizations and corporations, 10 years of taxes to fund 6 years of coverage...most won't come into effect until the last two years, forcing the poor to pay for something they couldn't afford to begin with, and cost-shifting medical expenses in hospitals and doctor offices that are under-funded to those that have health insurance...thus driving up the cost to those that pay for their insurances.

Not to mention the fact that we had a doctor shortage prior to adding on millions of new patients, and now everyone is being hurt.

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Forcing comptetition across state lines? how would that work but to create a single set of requirements and regulations, forgoing the current system where each state is in control of that? What you want now is government run health care. NO insurance company is barred or was barred from offering it's products in any state in the union. All they have to do is adhere to each state's mandates. The reason insurance companies do not cross state lines (except for the ones that do) is because each company finds it more profitable to have their own private domains. If I have 6 different insurance companies in my state (I do), then there should be some amount of real competition, there is not.

There is no plan to hire 1650 new IRS agents in order to enforce the ACA, your information is flawed. It was a projection of possible need to spend more money over all in the IRS and that money was hypothisized to be spread across a supposed group of employees, not all of them agents anyway.

I especially like your last lament. Because we have a doctor shortage, we should not do everrything we can to help as many as possible. "we only have enough water for 5 of us on this cast adrift boat, so we should throw the the poorest or least influencial passengers off the vessel."

Yes, because we don't have enough doctors, only those who already have doctors should continue to have them.

Uncle Ben said:

I'm very much like that. How do you think some people got financially secure, ahead of others? It's by being frugal, investing, saving. There's a concept missing with many in our society and it's quite evident here. The concept which must be carried out to get ahead is called "deferred gratification". Plan for tomorrow and today will always treat you right. Set yourself for failure and you only have yourself to blame. Give 'me two nickels, they'll rub 'em together and they'll disappear.

Heck, I'll spend 2 hours on the internet to save $5 for some gadget. I've been saving and investing for over 30 years too and consider myself quite well off. I waited for months and spent a hundred hours of research to get my recent HT purchase - an OPPO 103 player/media center. Glad I did...this reference player is unbelievable.

UB

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And here we go with the self righteous "be frugal and you will prosper". Interestingly, it was Cheney who said that conservation (frugality) is not the way to improve a country's dependence on oil.

There are a host of situations where simply being frugal and working hard gets one absolutely nowhere. I grow tired of those who have managed by luck, by inheretence, by work and by happenstance to look down upon others who havn't experienced the same set of situations. Tell the mother who commutes two hours by bus to her work, pay for her children's child care and has trouble meeting her simple living costs to "be frugal" when she has most likely been at least as frugal as you all her adult life.

Sure, she can get ahead, maybe, but we can look at charts that indicate that fewer and fewer people are afforded the chance to "get ahead" because so many are willing to snip a dollar here and 5 dollars there from those people's limited income.

I do a yearly inventory of cash leaks. I check water, electricity, unneeded subscriptions, insurance, auto costs and everrything else. My frugality had me cancel my jumbo entertainment package, my Sirious radio, get a new HARP2 loan, pay off my car and the result was an increase in my HOA dues, an increase in my water and sewer fees an increase in my insurance and an increase in garbage fees. After all of my "frugality", I seem to have managed to stay about where I was a year ago.

canndo said:

Yes, because we don't have enough doctors, only those who already have doctors should continue to have them.

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doctors are super useful



everybody should own one.

Uncle Ben said:

Bush? You did mean to say thank you Obama, eh? The REAL unemployment rate is something like 33%. Folks have dropped out of the market, gave up, quit looking so they're not counted any more. If you want to believe the numbers coming out of this crooked ad-menstruation then you have at it.

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Aren't you one who is condemning those with out jobs, needing unemployment insurance as lazy?

lilroach said:

My final thoughts on this thread (hopefully).

Honestly, there's really not that much difference between liberals and conservatives as far as wanting the best for our nation and planet.....And there's even less difference between Democrats and Republicans as far as "politics as usual". "Two piles....same smell" describes how I feel about both parties. While both say they're working for the middle class, they pander to the deep pockets of the rich shelling out political favors to the rich at the expense of tax payers.

On Election Day we as voters have the choices of picking the least of two evils, or staying home and saying "fuck-it"....which more than half the registered voters do each election. Our candidates have been picked by the very same deep pockets long before we cast our ballets.

Once elected, our so-called representatives spend 30% of their time holding their hand out for campaign contributions, 30% of their time not being in Washington, and the rest of their time doing their best to obstruct the "other side" from gaining any political edge. In the meantime nothing gets accomplished except back-room deals passed in the middle of the night.

In the not so distant future, the economic house of cards will tumble, and all that can-kicking our politicians are so famous for will end up at the end of the road with all American's suffering like we've never suffered before. Real Draconian cuts will have to be made at the expense of the poor and elderly, and the working youth will be burdened with over 50% of their income being taxed to try to make ends meet. The decades of irresponsible politicians that made all these ill-adivised decisions will either be dead or sitting on their fat retirements.

So we can point fingers at liberals and conservatives and nothing will change....but we can stop being irresponsible citizens of this country and stand up and be counted.

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No. The difference is what liberals are willing to do vs what conservatives are willing to do in the interest of their country and their world. Conservatives talk a great caring game until the hat is passed to them. There is where they fail.


Given that one to five percent of Americans have the vast majority of all the private assets in this country and the rest have virtualy nothing in comparison, why will corrections be placed upon their backs?

canndo said:

Here is the bit ploy the "it has been debunked" ploy. The dangers of fracking has NOT been debunked and if anything has been constantly proven to be a danger. I wonder, have the earthquakes around Texas and other states caused by fracking been "debunked" as well? have the spoiled wells and lakes been debunked?

No, that is the best defense big energy has, to put some single geoscientist up before congress and postulate that their must be some OTHER cause of the problems the locals have encountered shortly after they have come adrilling. I hasten to remind you that fracking companies refuse to even list the ingredients of their fracking concoctions let alone let us know their effects upon animal and humanhealth.

Always inject doubt into scientific converstations and then claim that in itself is "debunking".

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Hey sophist, since you claim to know my MO, here is yours. Mung the wording. Take offense, change the subject.

Sky was pretty tongue in cheek. I didn't think she bought, but I laid the fly paper for you, I see.

Flaming water from hydro-shock fracturing is a lie. You don't care to know what I study. Oil wells, oth, can actually release hydrocarbons from the process.

So, old news, news myth. Oil drilling does make flaming water. Deep well injection of waste water does cause earthquakes. Not Fraking.

There is no proven or associated danger of fraking. Only the evil Saganists are against it. I know all about this.

And go ahead. Try to piss on experts for acting that way. So far above you, this is, your piss is just on your own head.

Save your scorn, yellow brow. Give a fact. Show a litigated harm.

Uncle Ben said:

Bullshit, don't know what liberal propaganda teat you're sucking but they have you hooked on the kool aid. Here's a black man's take along with John Stossel who have the facts. Giving thru the government is NOT charity because it's forced. Romney gave millions to charity but you won't hear such facts on ABC, NBC, or CBS. http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4478336/whos-more-charitable-republicans-or-democrats/#sp=show-clips

Curious, do you volunteer for any community or civic based groups? Do you pick up litter alongside the highway? I do, so cut the lame stereotyping. It makes you look like a goofball.

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Oh, Romney gave millions to charities! Unless he deducted not one cent of them, then what he did was to have the rest of us subsidize his moral agenda.

lilroach said:

Being an Independent I have the luxury of stepping back from the whole Dems vs. GOP thing and see things without having to defend one side or the other.

I'm sure there's a degree of selfishness in the GOP, but probably no more than the Democrats. I never understood how anyone would feel that just because someone's from a certain party would indicate how much they care for our planet or fellow man. Way back in the mid-90's when I was a republican I not only gave to charities, but was actively involved in three different ones and worked along side other republicans.

I am sorry that you feel as you do.

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Those who use the easy argument of "they are all the same", have not paid attention. They are not two sides of the same coin.

Uncle Ben said:

Ignorance is more like it.

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I am quite liberal and I do not consider myself ignorant. I take it you do?

Uncle Ben said:

How do you feel about the politically correct fed mandate adding ethanol to gas? It's another stupid liberal government solution, window dressing, feel good stuff. It harms certain engine parts, is very costly to produce, drives up the price of corn and commodities like feed, breakfast cereal, etc.

It takes a tremendous amount of OIL, fossil fuels, to produce ethanol - farm equipment, labor, fertilizers, fuel and lubes for the equipment, energy for the distillation process, etc. And everyone remembers other Obama follies or scandals like Solyndra that cost a half billion public dollars. The guy is wreckless and as worthless as tits on a bull. I don't know what's worse with this nutjob, his foreign policy or energy policies.

UB

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It was an experiment gone wrong that is now dominated by Big Ag. But there are other biofuels that are more efficient and a wiser choice, I rarely hear those mentioned when I speak of biofuels.

Doer said:

Hey sophist, since you claim to know my MO, here is yours. Mung the wording. Take offense, change the subject.

Sky was pretty tongue in cheek. I didn't think she bought, but I laid the fly paper for you, I see.

Flaming water from hydro-shock fracturing is a lie. You don't care to know what I study. Oil wells, oth, can actually release hydrocarbons from the process.

So, old news, news myth. Oil drilling does make flaming water. Deep well injection of waste water does cause earthquakes. Not Fraking.

There is no proven or associated danger of fraking. Only the evil Saganists are against it. I know all about this.

And go ahead. Try to piss on experts for acting that way. So far above you, this is, your piss is just on your own head.

Save your scorn, yellow brow. Give a fact. Show a litigated harm.

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so the only proof you will accept is Litigated Harm? really? pit a rancher against an oil company? you get what? either a settlement with no harm admitted or you get a failed showdown. Take half the cards out of the deck and you will get few real results. Maybe it wasn't fracking, but what ever it was was coincidental to local "drilling". Who is splitting hairs?

http://rt.com/usa/fracking-gas-health-report-917/

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/research-shows-quakes-in-3-states-were-caused-by-fracking

Now, if you want to get technical, it is possible that the fracking itself did not cause the quakes, but the wastewater injected did. So did fracking, the source of the waste fluids cause the quakes or did the fracking itself cause them. Would there be such quantities of liquids otherwise?

Or is this more sophestry?

Dr Kynes said:

coca cola, KFC (so racist) and Mc Donalds dont share with the congress their secret recipes either. cuz congress cant keep a secret.

perhaps these products also contain "chemicals" or GMO's, or the blood of chrisitan children, or some other Blood Libel you can hurl into the void.

theres lots of secret formulas you dont get to know, discuss and pre-approve.

but theres one thing thats sure, fracking "chemicals" include the dangerous, potentially lethal chemicals, bentonite and dihydrous monoxide as their major constituents.


Think of the Children!

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So far anyway, I have a choice of eating or refraining from KFC and Coke. KFC at least limits itself to herbs and spices. Are they injecting rosmary and cilantro into the ground by the millions of gallons?

If I live in the area, and I was there first, do I have a choice?