My First Grow any help welcomed :)

Hello all! I stumbled upon this website one day and then came back to reality about 4 hours later! I just decided to try my first grow and I was having a few questions and interested in other peoples opinions.

I am running 400w HPS. Started 1 clone of purple kush on 9/30.

I started about a week ago and before starting it looked like the perfect little grow room, but no of course it couldnt be that easy. Originally I wanted it to be in my little closet, but temperatures were not nice with the door closed

I quickly purchased a water cooler for $40 off craiglist to help drop the temps down and my grow room transformed into a grow area because the cooler is pretty big. So after a few tweaks you see what i have come up with.

So I had a question about my temps, I bought something to read the temp and its usually around 86, but I have heard a bunch of people saying if the temp at the top of the plant is ok on the back of your hand then its ok, is this true?

If anyone has any advice or ideas please let me know, this is my first grow and I am very eager to learn as much as possible

Ok I couldnt find out how to do the pics in a diff post but here is my plant!! ~10days old from when i got it as a clone

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Hey dveight, welcome to RUI!

You need ventilation in your closet, a fan to draw air out from the top and a passive inlet in the bottom. Build an air floor above the air inlet vent.

You'll need to light proof your door - easiest done by with a roll of black out plastic.

If you can't cut vents ducts in your wall we design light proof vents for your roll up plastic door - made of 1/2" pvc and black out plastic.

You need to keep your plants short - some type of stem training.

The back of the hand method is best for canopy distance from light, but you need to vent the hot air from the light and draw in fresh cool air or your plants will cook.

You don't need the cooler for growing.

Download the Equipment chapter of Weed Science and go to the Ventilation and Air Floor sections. Link below.

Do yourself a favour and blow the air into the closet and vent for the exhaust. If you're going to use an exhaust fan(s) make sure you use an intake fan(s) thats slightly more powerful. This will provide positive air pressure in the closet so your plants will have a denser atmosphere.

Thanks Hobbes!
So as far as stem training goes, my friend kind of showed my how to trim, I watched a few videos on youtube and I have seen pretty good results, imo

The only reason I need the cooler is because I have it blowing the cold air into another fan that is circulating the air around the plant. I only have that emergency blanket down during the night and I noticed with the 2 fans I can drop the temp down from about 92ish to sometimes as low as 72.


ok so one of my problems is that i cannot do anything to the walls for ventilation, that has been hands down my biggest problem so far

You might have to fit the door for your vents. If you don't want to destroy your nice door you can buy a cheap used door. When I want to lightproof my vents I use that metal stuff that pulls out like an accordian. If you are upstairs in a modern house the attic is only one sheet of drywall away through the ceiling. If you decide to do this make sure the vents go completely outside.

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Bird that's an interesting concept - I'm going to measure the difference in air pressure from compressing a chamber below my air floor and from drawing it out from above as I do now. Intuitively I'd think that higher air pressure would feed the plant more CO2, but the most potent bud is grown in mountains so maybe low air pressure aids as well as high UV light. Wicked cool idea!! This has to be researched by a crew of top men.



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I grow in the BC rocky mountains.

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Some of the most potent bud I've had was grown on top of cedar trees in the Pemberton Valley, Texada Timewarp.

Do you grow out doors Bird?

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Hobbes said:

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Some of the most potent bud I've had was grown on top of cedar trees in the Pemberton Valley, Texada Timewarp.

Do you grow out doors Bird?

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Click to expand...

I stopped growing outdoor in 1987, but my last crop was wicked. F&D indoor all the way since then.

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"i cannot do anything to the walls for ventilation, that has been hands down my biggest problem so far"

If you remove your door and staple up two rectangles of black out plastic:

- Hay bailing plastic is incredibly tough and will last for years.
- If you're using Panda plastic face black sides of both doors to the middle to absorb light.
- 6" of plastic overlapping the walls and floor.
- Fold the plastic several times at the top and staple to something solid
- Nail a piece of wood over the plastic so the staples don't pull
- Tie string to the nails behind the plastic and tie a loop at the bottom, when you roll up the plastic the string holds the roll up to the nail.
- I find that the 6" overlap and double plastic door is sufficient for a light lock, but you can add velcro if your concerned.
- Roll a long broom stick in the plastic at the bottom of your door, duct tape to seal. The broom stick should be wider than the door. This will make rolling up easier.

- Do this on both sides of the door - this forms a light lock.
- You can hang a tapestry on the outside for aesthetics.

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The light proof vent is made with 1/2" PVC, joints, duct tape and black plastic - no glue - very easy to make. A vent goes across both the top and bottom of the plastic door, outlet through the top and inlet through the bottom. If you're interested I'll do up a pictorial over the next day or two.

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haha that picture is awesome.

well about the ventilation i cant really do anything, i just leave the door open with the fans blowing thats about as good as I can get it, I cant get to complex because im in an apt.

And also I am running on a 17/7 schedule, I did this because I had someone sleeping on my couch so I didnt want the light to bother him lol. Should I change it to something else for days no one is on the couch?

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So long as your door is open while the light is on you should be fine for heat.

Aim a fan up through the canopy, supplying fresh air to the stoma under the leaves. This also pushes hot air up away from the canopy.

You will need a light lock during flower, you must have absolute dark. We can see light leaking through the door in one of your pictures.



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correct, my friend was saying the exact same thing about the light, so i am about 10 days into my grow, how long am i looking at before starting the flowering stage?
I have gotten mixed answers from friends on this question, should I give nutes or no? some friends say no some say yes, and some say wait a month blah blah, what would u recommend?

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"how long am i looking at before starting the flowering stage?"

Most plants become sexually mature at around 5 weeks of veg, if put into 12/12 before that they will continue to veg but at a slower rate.

You should go by how tall you want your plant - put it into flower when 12/12 stretch will give you the height you require. Dependant on strain and grower.

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"should I give nutes or no?"

Your plants need some nutrients right away - do you have pre fertilized soil?

I give my seedlings 1/4 strength nutes after their first watering. I use Pro Mix for a medium.

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i got the fox farm ocean forest soil, but i havent used any nutes at all yet.
I have fed my plant 2 times in the past 10 days, i put mylar around the base of the plant and it covers the soil is that why its holding water for so long?

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"i got the fox farm ocean forest soil, but i havent used any nutes at all yet. ... I have fed my plant 2 times in the past 10 days"

Fed or watered?

FFOF is prefertilized, you should not add nutes for some time. I have never used FFOF, if you do an advanced search (above) you can look for threads with the name in the title ONLY or start a thread asking specifically about FFOF and when to add nutes first. People who have used FFOF before can give you a quick definitive answer.

If you are already fertiling then flush your plants with distilled or ph adjudsted clear water right away, the leaves will burn a bit but the plant will recover. Flush with 2x the volume of the pot and raise the pot so it's not sitting in water afterwards - root rot. Make double root pruning pots to aid draining (equipment chapter).



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"i put mylar around the base of the plant and it covers the soil is that why its holding water for so long?"

It's one of the reasons. If you want light reflection on the soil, or slower evaporation through the root ball, cover the soil with perlite. It will breath as well as giving you the water retention and light reflection properties you want.

Fertilizer manufacturers base their nutrient concentrations and feeding schedules based on basic growing techniques - bucket and peat mix. When we change the dynamics by adding moisture retention or by using an air pruning pots and causing quicker evaporation we cause more rapid, or less frequent, feedings.

The top roots are breathing roots, they must periodically dry out or we will get root rot. The bottom roots cannot sit in water or we will get root rot. The pots cannot dry out too quickly or we will feed to often and have a build up of nutrients in the root ball - eventually causing nutrient burn.

It's a dance but the balance is easy kept once attained.

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Introduction
"Root rot" is a common waterborne disease that can seriously affect indoor and outdoor crops year round. "Pythium" is a generic term for several different root rot and stem rot fungus species (including Pythium, Verticillium, and Phytophthora, and Fusarium). Root rot is also known as "damping-off" in seeds, seedlings and clones.

Pythium can rapidly infect crops in vegetative and flowering stages. Damage includes strain infection, reduced yields, and crop failure. Pythium is particularly damaging in high-density dwc / hydroponic / aeroponic systems, as these recirculating systems provide ideal conditions for rapid growth and spread of pythium spores. One infected plant can quickly spread rot to all plants if the system has an interconected irrigation system.

This FAQ focuses on indoor prevention and treatment options.

Background
Pythium typically thrives in oxygen-poor (anaerobic), warm (75-85 F), and poorly circulated nutrient solutions. Heavy clay soils with poor drainage are high-risk soil planting sites.

Sources of infection:
# Unsterilized tools and equipment
# Unfiltered water
# Dead roots from previous crops
# Infected plant material (i.e. clones taken from infected moms)

Dissolved oxygen, temperature and pythium
The amount of dissolved oxygen (DO) in a nutrient solution depends on the water temperature. Cold water can 'hold' more dissolved oxygen. A fully aerated solution at 20C/68 F is 9 - 10ppm; at 30C/86F it's 7ppm.

Root oxygen requirement doubles for each 10C rise in root system temperature (max 30C/86F). The dilemma for the grower is that with a 10C rise in temperature, root system oxygen requirements will double, while the oxygen carrying capacity of the solution will drop by over 25%!

The nutrient DO is unable to supply the root's oxygen demands, leading to prolonged oxygen starvation. Oxygen starvation will result in slow growth, mineral deficiencies, root die-back and reduced yields. Oxygen starvation will stress the plant, leading to an eventual attack by opportunistic pathogens, such as ever-present pythium.

Identification, Symptoms and Damage:
Symptoms:
Initial:
# Yellowed, droopy and wilting leaves (possibly exhibiting mineral deficiencies). Leaf curl over - ram's horns' - roots are unable to uptake nutrients at that strength because they are infected.
# pH becomes more acidic (pH should rise slowly in a healthy system)
# 'Burnt' root tips (browning tips may also be a result of light exposure, or over fertilization)
# Reduced water consumption and rising nutrient strength
# Brown colored roots. (Note: GH "Micro" will stain roots brown as well; stain darkens @ ppm's. Healthy root should be white or slightly tan)

Advanced:
# Brown and slimy roots with a slight to strong rotting odor. Plant may appear healthy.
# Reddish and swollen root collar, becoming blackened over time. Eventually the plant will fall over as all connecting tissue will have been 'eaten away'.

Note: Root damage is permanent; new root hairs can form, but damaged roots will not regenerate. Lightly infected roots may turn white again if treated promptly.

Dead roots serve as energy sources for pythium; snip off dead roots and remove flating root piece by changing the tank frequently.

Physical test of advanced root rot:
"Brown tissue on the outer portion of the root easily pulls off, leaving a thin strand of hair-like vascular tissue exposed."

Management Strategies
Keeping the crop healthy, vigorous and stress-free is the best "cure" against pythium. Pythium is almost impossible to 100% eradicate from an infected system; this involves starting completely over (with new mothers, containers, equipment, etc). An infected crop can be nursed along, and subsequent crops can still yield, provided the grower takes care to minimize the growth and spread of pythium in the system.

Starting with a pythium-free system is the best strategy:

Startup with a new crop:
-disinfect the system. Manual scrubbing and bleach might be necessary.
-add tap water
-disinfect the water with strong h2o2. It takes 100ppm to kill pythium outright, however this can also kill small plants. Wait 24 hours for h2o2 to dissipate to a safe level - do not add tap water to system! Add only h2o2-treated water.
-add nutrients and beneficial enzymes. The aerobic-loving enzymes will colonize the sterilized medium and system, hopefully displacing any anaerobic bacteria.

Soil tips:
Improved soil is the first step to keeping root rot out of your garden. Adding amendments to improve drainage and aeration will decrease the chances of root rot. Use only sterilized soil/soilless mixes or heat-treated soil before use.
Removing the diseased plants and several inches of affected soil will slow or stop the spread of pythium. Avoid over watering, as saturated soil promotes anaerobic conditions. Remove and destroy roots and surrounding soil near infected plants. Use sterilized soil for transplants. Provide good drainage and avoid overcrowding plants.

Preventive gardening:
# Monitor plants and roots frequently. Inspect roots for browning. Stressed plants are attacked first, so it is important to inspect crop and remove unhealthy plants.
# Maximize aeration. Use venturis, powerheads, bubble walls/ air curtains, air stones, and daily h2o2 usage to increase dissolved oxygen. Allow nutrients to fall back into the reservoir to create 'waterfall aeration'.
# Use only healthy clones taken from healthy moms (pythium is systemic and diseased moms will pass on root rot!)
# Keep ph stable, between 5.5 and 6.0
# Keep air moving, circulate nutrients continuously
# Keep reservoir / root zone temps low: 62-65F.(Note: submerged pumps will increase water temperature)
# Maintain a clean system. Change tank weekly to reduce spore loads. Add only h2o2-sterilized water
# Use tank additives

Other tips:
# Isolate plants. Keep water culture plants isolated in their own containers if possible.
# "Run-to-waste" systems: nutrients are not re-circulated = reduced spore loads
# Use separate reservoirs/pumps to isolate systems.
# Sterilize equipment shared (ie. pH meters) between tanks
# Make sure cloning mediums (especially rockwool) do not remain saturated for too long. Drain fully after watering.

Special tips for bubblers:
(highgrade) "Have an empty, sterile bucket to place the bubbling bucket into when changing nutes. The extra bucket method allows me to run a gallon of water through the pot and flush the grorocs and root mass of any salt build up. Wash the bucket prior to refilling with solution."

(Baudelaire) "… maintain a humid air gap extending from the root crown down at least 4 inches. This provides the space for aerial roots to form, and keeps water away from the root collar, where root rot typically takes hold."

Emergency Treatment: top

1. Hydrogen Peroxide root dunk
-Remove each plant from system, snip off potions of the roots system badly diseased.
-Dip/swish each plant and container into a strong H2O2 solution, until diseased roots have been removed. Repeat as required. The H2O2 should burn off the pythium-infected outer root layers.

2. Sterilize equipment
All equipment should be disinfected (including hoses and pots, etc) with bleach solution or 10% h2o2 solution before plants are reintroduced into the system. Rinse well.

3. Add root rot medication.
Add anti-pythium additives, Vitamin B1, and fresh nutrients to a sterilized reservoir at a lower strength, at cooler temps. Reduce light levels. After a week or so, after new roots appear, add some root boost additives.

Environmental control: top

# Maximize reservoir circulation, aeration and cooling
# Reverse Osmosis (RO) to remove pathogens from source water
# UV sterilizers. UV kills pathogens as nutrients are passed through unit
# Ozone. Maintain a 300-400mV level
# Blow cool air through the root zone
# Minimize light leaks and cover reservoir (but don't seal) to limit algae growth. Algae will grow, reproduce and die, adding organic material for pythium to feed on. Algae and other slimes may coat the roots, stressing plants even further.

*Take care using UV and Ozone, as nutrients can precipitate out of solution. Iron is especially susceptible.

Chemical/Biological additives: top

Note: H2o2 may kill enzymes used in some biological additives. Additives should be considered preventive only; not all additives may be effective.

Beneficial bacteria colonize the root system, out-reproducing root disease organisms. Some additives may "feed" on decayed roots. Additives may be added during every tank change, except for H2o2 and Ridomil.
•H2O2 (See H2O2 FAQ) •Ridomil (1 app, systemic, toxic, 5 drops/gal).
•FloraShield (by GH) •Bio Bugs
Guardian angel (2.5-5 ml/gal) Bio Bran (rambridge.com, 11 enzymes)
Root Shield (americanagritech.com) Sm-90 (citrus extracts @ 2.5 ml/gal)
Hydro Shield (grotek.net) Pro-Silica (silicon, basic, up to 5 ml/gal)
Microkill (kills mold/fungus/mildew/algae) Pro-TeKt (silicon)
Canna-zyme (Canna, canna.com, 15 different enzymes) Power Active
ATAZYM (Atami) BN-ZYM (bio nova)
Zyme (Green Planet, 6-8ml/gal)
Others: Ascend/Fongarid/Consan 20)/Fosetyl-A1 (sold as Aliette)

For seeds, seedlings and clones:
# Use 1 drop bleach/gal when sprouting seeds using towel method
# No-damp (spray cloning domes at 5-10ml/L)
# Cloning gel/powder with a fungicide

Experimental
# UV Sterilizers. UV can kill waterborne organisms, with a slow exposure to UV light. Research suggests iron can precipitate out of solution. Pythium already attached to surfaces in the rootzone will not flow through the sterilizer and not be killed. Aquarium stores sell them.

# Continuous drip H2o2. According to Maximum Yield, 100ppm is required to kill pythium in solution. This level also adversely affects small plants. Of course, organics and beneficial bacteria in additives will also be destroyed.

H2o2 should be added to a seperate volume of water and allowed to sit for 20 minutes before adding to the reservoir. The majority of the O2 will be chemically released by the H2o2 by that point. (In high enough concentration, h2o2 will burn off the epeidermis of the roots, exposing it to attack by pathogens and damging fine root hairs).

# Slow sand filtration. According to interet literature, SSF can remove up to 99.7% of all bacteria. Aquarium stores sell sand filters.

# Dissolved Oxygen machines. Artifically injecting water with oxygen may inhibit or kill pytium and other anerobic organisms.

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How do I recognize and prevent root rot in soil?

Growers running soil and soilless systems should be aware of the environment that pythium thrives in, and actively improve their room/planting site conditions. Soil growers do not have the luxury of looking at their roots, so they should anticipate problems and recognize the early symptoms of pythium infection.

Root/Stem rot is almost impossible to treat because it is systemic (internal) in nature. Even in an advanced stage root rot may go unnoticed, with above ground growth appearing normal. Growth and yield however, can be drastically reduced. Think of pythium as flesh eating disease – for plants!

Some external symptoms to look for:





Slow growth for no apparent reason

Wilting leaves.
(Narky) Often the top of growth shoots will also become limp and buckle over

Leaves turn yellow starting at the bottom-most node, from the leaf tips inwards

Reddening root collar, turning to a brown/black ring girdling the entire stem.

Eventually this black ring will turn necrotic and the external tissues will appear "eaten" away. The internal vascular tissues will still function, and allow the transpiration of water and nutrients (The plant will appear healthy). Within a week, the dissolved stem will no longer support the weight of the plant, and it will fall over!

Common causes of pythium in soil:
Root rot is also known as “damping-off disease” because it commonly occurs when plants are in the seedling stage, due to:

1) Inadequate Drainage - MJ requires well drained soil, so add at least 25% Perlite to all soil mixtures. Substitute sterilized pebbles or rocks (be sure to bake this in your oven for 10-15 minutes to sterilize).

tip: put an inert medium (ie. gravel/peagravel/popocks) at the bottom of the container (with your soil/sloilless mixture on top) to avoid saturation of the lowest layers of the soil and provide full draining.

2) Overwatering – Growers should allow their plants to (almost) dry out before re-watering (Do the Lift test). This “wet-dry” watering cycle helps to minimize over watering, stagnant water conditions and low dissolved oxygen within the medium.

3) Stagnant Water – Soil moisture that is not absorbed rapidly turns stagnant; the plant quickly uses up any oxygen within the water, then is unable to respire further, resulting in moisture low in o2. Pythium thrives in low-oxygen (anaerobic) conditions.

Plants should be watered at the start of their daily light cycle, so they are able to transpire much (if not most) of that supplied water, resulting in a low soil moisture content and higher oxygen content during the low-growth night cycle. A highly porous soil medium combined with a low soil moisture % provides a higher gas exchange. This is important during night cycle root respiration/flower development.

4) Low light / Low temps – Plants in low light conditions does not get adequate energy for healthy growth. Low light will cause plants to stretch, grow slowly, yield poorly and causes general stress. Lowlight also usually results in lower temperatures, resulting in slow growth and stress.

Under low light/cool temp conditions, soil tends to remain cool and saturated for extended periods. Under these circumstances, the plant is unable to actively transpire moisture out of the soil. Oversaturated soils do not allow adequate gaseous exchange, and oxygen becomes depleted.
Stressed plants are more susceptible to disease.

Solution: expose your outdoor plants to more light, allow the soil to warm up by removing excess surface mulch. Plant after June 1 to avoid lower soil temps. Plant on raised burms to increase soil temps and reduced moisture.

Other tips:
Growers can add 5ml/L of No-Damp (a fungicide) to their potting mediums when mixing up. No-Damp discourages root growth however.

(Narky) Stem rot is caused by overwatering and occasionally by mulching to close to the stem while a plant is young. Remove any effected areas of your plant immediately! (Be merciless) Correcting your watering practices and spraying with a fungicide can bring a plant back to health.

By fed yes I meant watererd thank you
Ok what happened at the very start of my grow was extremely embarrassing lol, so i got a headband 707 and purple kush clone, brought them home and let them sit under the light while i was at work so they could "get used to it" as my friend said. All the soil was in my car and it was the middle of the day so i didnt want to be walking through my apt complex with all that stuff. My 8 hrs go by at work and come back to a dead headband clone and i honestly have no idea how the purple kush made it but im happy! I went down to the garden store and started choppin it up with one of the guys who works there who also grows and he had me buy some stuff called new plant thrive. I put this in the water both times i have watered my plant.
About the FFoF I was told the same thing by the guy from the hydro store about the nutes, he said the fox farm is good for about a month so i still have a solid 3 weeks before i have to worrk about that.

I had another question about my light cycle, i told u earlier that i changed to 17/7 for my friend cuz he was crashin over here, but the last couple nights i went back to 24/0 to see if i could get more growth. i have noticed many more stemsites? i am not sure the exact name, but i want to know if this is dangerous for the plant. I have watched a few tutorials on youtube about supercropping so I am having a go at it, and from what i can tell it seems to be working. I spend time with my plant everyday bending bigger leaves out of the way and trimming to make more grow. Any specific advice in this area?

Ive been wandering around the sites and I have been noticing that a lot of people who grow in the closet or some other type of small area they use CFL lights to get bigger yield. I was thinking maybe of getting one of those and mounting it on the wall on the left side? Do you think this is worth it?

Once again thank you so much you are being extremely helpful thanks!

So I just had a few more tweaks to my area and now its even more compact.
Now the back of the water cooler is facing us pulling all the fresh air into the room right on the plant. This setup also lets me close the door more so i can trap the light, my apt glows at night haha!

Im also going to have a go with supercropping, from what i understand just bend everything so you expose more area to light? This looks fun