Organic Vs. Synthetic Nutrients
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skywalker707
Member
Here you go Trainwreck again more pinene in organic, and more caryophyllene in synthetic.. Its pretty much a pattern after three examples.. and what smell is caryophyllene? The dieselly pepper smell.. That you can find in most og kush strains, chemdawg, sour diesel.. and if you follow limonene, carophyllene and myrcene these three concretely they make the back bone of terpenes of most modern heavy hitter, best strains nowadays.. and by some ridicolous coincidence, seed junky genetics grow with synthetics.. capulator the creator of mac with synthetics.. cannabiotix mix synthetics with organics.. berner from cookies also grow with synthetics.. How come the dominant strains of today which have the best taste arguably, and effect all were grown and developed with synthetics? And the very terpenes making some of the best tasting strains of today are limonene, carrophyllene and myrcene can also be clearly seen more developed with synthetics? What if the terpenes that organics develop better are more old school strains like landraces, and the like of blueberry, amnesia, northern lights, strawberry cough, grandaddy purple? I just believe certain strains are grown better organically and others synthetically.. and develop the very terpenes which make their names better with one or the other method by default thanks to the adaption from the breeder.. I don't think you can grow more tasty wedding cake than seed junky genetics if you grow it organically vs them synthetically.. Neither you can grow better tasting blueberry synthetically when you grow it organically..
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Funkentelechy
Well-Known Member
It's possible that what you are describing has to do with selection by the breeder based on the expression of pheno types when grown with synthetic nutrients vs organic. It sounds like(and correct me if I'm wrong) what you are positting is that when strains are bred by breeders who were using organic growing methods the resulting seed sock produces higher potency better tasting buds when they grown using organic inputs and vise versa regarding seeds produced by breeders who use synthetics.
If a strain expresses different pheno types when grown using synthetic fertilizers(or vise versa) and the breeder selects towards a pheno type that occurs while using synthetics then it seems reasonable that if someone buys that strain that person might not get a plant with the same expression/pheno type that the breeder bred towards if they grow it using organics.
Not to contradict you, just having fun theorizing why what you claim could be true.
If a strain expresses different pheno types when grown using synthetic fertilizers(or vise versa) and the breeder selects towards a pheno type that occurs while using synthetics then it seems reasonable that if someone buys that strain that person might not get a plant with the same expression/pheno type that the breeder bred towards if they grow it using organics.
Not to contradict you, just having fun theorizing why what you claim could be true.
skywalker707
Member
I am saying if breeders who grow and created strains like wedding cake, girl scout cookies, permanent marker, ect. ect.. did it with synthetics and got famous all over the industry with these strains and i repeat did it perfectly with synthetics. Then these strains do better with synthetics.. In flavour, taste, potency.. Organic growers won't be able to reproduce the terpenes that made these very strains famous with organics.. As i clearly shown you limonene, myrcene and caryophyllene are higher in synthetic grows than organics grows with the same strain grown from clones.. Thats why strains that got famous because of these terpenes will in general perform better with synthetic nutes than organic nutes.. On the other hand organics increase more different terpenes.. The strains that become famous thanks to these terpenes in organic type of grows, created by breeders widely known to grow organically like DJ Short, Soma, Bodhi, Humboldt Seed Company, Gage Green Group, Mandala will perform better in organic grow. What is so hard to understand here? I already repeated the same thing 5 times and you still don't get it..
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shorelineOG
Well-Known Member
Every strain does better if you feed it fertilizer .Every strain does better if the roots are exposed to oxygen with mediums like coco, hydroton, perlite.
Every strain does better in hydro, tests cleaner with out the heavy metals that occur in soil. Faster growth and more oil production.
Hydro is just water, air and nutrients.
When you grow in mud you have a ton of unknowns .
Every strain does better in hydro, tests cleaner with out the heavy metals that occur in soil. Faster growth and more oil production.
Hydro is just water, air and nutrients.
When you grow in mud you have a ton of unknowns .
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
Alright, let me get this straight... Are you guys saying that ANY/EVERY synthetic line will get you the results you are talking about?
So… General Hydro, Botanicare, Fox Farm, Jacks, Maxigro, Dynagro ,Veg/Bloom, Cutting Edge, NPK, Dutch Pro, Flora Flex, Athena Ag, Canna, House & Garden, RX Green, Current Culture, Emerald Harvest, Heavy-16, Rock Nutrients, Advanced Nutrients, Cyco, Mills pays the bills and Miracle Grow will all give you the same results?? Same cannabinoids?? Same terpene profiles?? Same Flavors?? From the same plant??
I’m probably missing more than half of the popular options.
How long have you guys been growing again??
This should be good.
So… General Hydro, Botanicare, Fox Farm, Jacks, Maxigro, Dynagro ,Veg/Bloom, Cutting Edge, NPK, Dutch Pro, Flora Flex, Athena Ag, Canna, House & Garden, RX Green, Current Culture, Emerald Harvest, Heavy-16, Rock Nutrients, Advanced Nutrients, Cyco, Mills pays the bills and Miracle Grow will all give you the same results?? Same cannabinoids?? Same terpene profiles?? Same Flavors?? From the same plant??
I’m probably missing more than half of the popular options.
How long have you guys been growing again??
This should be good.
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
And another thing, I would love to hear anyone of you synthetic guys describe what your idea of organic growing is.
So far, Observe & Report was the only one who seemed to have some idea of different organic methods, though he missed the most import which is organic No-Till gardening.
So what are we talking about when talking organic growing? So far I’ve heard growing in the dirt or the mud, lack of oxygen, more heavy metals… but what way of gardening are we talking about?
Are we talking about digging a hole in your backyard and using hose water? Are we talking coco with organic bottle feed? Store bought potting mix? Are we talking built soils made from peat, compost, pumice and amendments? Are we talking in an organic garden bed of real earth soil? Define organic growing, because I hear a lot of organics doesn’t do this or can’t do that, which is comically incorrect. But…
What standard are we using? because these methods mentioned above do not give the same results and are not equivalent.
So far, Observe & Report was the only one who seemed to have some idea of different organic methods, though he missed the most import which is organic No-Till gardening.
So what are we talking about when talking organic growing? So far I’ve heard growing in the dirt or the mud, lack of oxygen, more heavy metals… but what way of gardening are we talking about?
Are we talking about digging a hole in your backyard and using hose water? Are we talking coco with organic bottle feed? Store bought potting mix? Are we talking built soils made from peat, compost, pumice and amendments? Are we talking in an organic garden bed of real earth soil? Define organic growing, because I hear a lot of organics doesn’t do this or can’t do that, which is comically incorrect. But…
What standard are we using? because these methods mentioned above do not give the same results and are not equivalent.
Fladawg01
Well-Known Member
If you can provide a living medium with healthy microbes and bacteria for your plants roots, worm teas, molasses, Epsom Salts will all work well. They'll keep the microbes fed and the microbes make the natural nutrients in the medium more accessible to the plant. To keep it organic as possible, I would avoid any nutrients that would kill off the microbes. Granted this probably isn't "full organic" but if I am doing this for me, it's as organic as I get. Grow in whatever way you desire. 
tstick
Well-Known Member
I think most of the people my age (66) or older, aren't that impressed with the cup-winning, commercially-popular strains of today. I WANTED to believe that once weed became legal, too, because then we would have easy-access to all the favorite varieties of weed that we used to have to wait around in some rainy parking lot for "the guy" to show up with. It seems pretty obvious that that's what SHOULD have happened. But, in fact, I went all over town to all the dispensaries and rec stores, for years after, looking for anything that came close to what "the guy" used to have for sale....never found it. And several times, when I thought
I might have gotten something kinda good, a friend would show up with a joint of some weed that he'd been getting from his "the guy" forever, and it would just blow my commercial weed completely away! So, from my experience, the only thing that got better, was the trimming and overall "cleanliness" of the bud-presentation, but not the quality or taste of the actual smoke.
I stick to my guns on the genetics being the real deal breaker when it comes to whether or not the smoke will be good or not. Nutrients -regardless of how they are produced, can make the plants grow optimally....but they can't turn hemp into marijuana! And now, breeders have mucked up the game even more with all the ridiculous auto flower junk! They're always working on the wrong things when they SHOULD be getting back to focusing on the taste and vibe, instead. I don't need my weed to grow in a more convenient way! lol! I need stronger flavors and beautiful feels!
It's all about the genetic starting material. As long as a grower can provide a decent environment for the plants, then the plants will do the best that they are genetically-capable of doing. I've smoked weed that looked like the grower kicked the shit out of the plants and basically said "fuck it!" as far as providing great growing conditions....and yet the smoke was great, in spite of it all, because of its genetics. I've also smoked absolutely perfectly grown/cured weed that smoked like bunk -again, because of its genetics.
I might have gotten something kinda good, a friend would show up with a joint of some weed that he'd been getting from his "the guy" forever, and it would just blow my commercial weed completely away! So, from my experience, the only thing that got better, was the trimming and overall "cleanliness" of the bud-presentation, but not the quality or taste of the actual smoke.
I stick to my guns on the genetics being the real deal breaker when it comes to whether or not the smoke will be good or not. Nutrients -regardless of how they are produced, can make the plants grow optimally....but they can't turn hemp into marijuana! And now, breeders have mucked up the game even more with all the ridiculous auto flower junk! They're always working on the wrong things when they SHOULD be getting back to focusing on the taste and vibe, instead. I don't need my weed to grow in a more convenient way! lol! I need stronger flavors and beautiful feels!
It's all about the genetic starting material. As long as a grower can provide a decent environment for the plants, then the plants will do the best that they are genetically-capable of doing. I've smoked weed that looked like the grower kicked the shit out of the plants and basically said "fuck it!" as far as providing great growing conditions....and yet the smoke was great, in spite of it all, because of its genetics. I've also smoked absolutely perfectly grown/cured weed that smoked like bunk -again, because of its genetics.
skywalker707
Member
I am saying some strains can grow better with synthetics, others not. People like Capulator the creator of Mac, prove it. People like Seed Junky Genetics with Jealosy, Permanent Marker and Wedding cake proved it. People like Cookies Fam with their creation of Girl Scout Cookies Proved it.Alright, let me get this straight... Are you guys saying that ANY/EVERY synthetic line will get you the results you are talking about?
So… General Hydro, Botanicare, Fox Farm, Jacks, Maxigro, Dynagro ,Veg/Bloom, Cutting Edge, NPK, Dutch Pro, Flora Flex, Athena Ag, Canna, House & Garden, RX Green, Current Culture, Emerald Harvest, Heavy-16, Rock Nutrients, Advanced Nutrients, Cyco, Mills pays the bills and Miracle Grow will all give you the same results?? Same cannabinoids?? Same terpene profiles?? Same Flavors?? From the same plant??
I’m probably missing more than half of the popular options.
How long have you guys been growing again??
This should be good.
I am not discounting organics i already mentioned some strains do better with organics. Blueberry, Amnesia Haze, Blueberry Muffin, Vanilla Frosting, Landraces, Many old school sativa varieties, old school indicas. Almost everything in which the predominant top 3 terpenes are not myrcene, limonene and caryophyllene which are more abundant in synthetic grows. I already shown you diagrams of the same strains grown from clonings producing more or less from different terpenes. Why you didn't stick to the science? And the clear examples of the strains that dominate the market for the last 5-10 years? To see that most of them were created using synthetic nutes, by growers that can grow just as good as organic growers and often get even better terpene profiles for certain strains??
skywalker707
Member
The new school strains have better taste for sure.. The old school strains don't beat wedding cake.. gelato.. zkittles in taste.. not even close.. and most of these new school strains true are not the most potent.. but.. if you get the right ones they are also more potent than almost everything from the old school strains too.. Great pheno of Runtz can compete with everything on taste and effect.. Great Og Kush can compete with everything and usually have better effect than everything.. Old school strains and landraces are no match for taste to the new stuff.. neither potency..I think most of the people my age (66) or older, aren't that impressed with the cup-winning, commercially-popular strains of today. I WANTED to believe that once weed became legal, too, because then we would have easy-access to all the favorite varieties of weed that we used to have to wait around in some rainy parking lot for "the guy" to show up with. It seems pretty obvious that that's what SHOULD have happened. But, in fact, I went all over town to all the dispensaries and rec stores, for years after, looking for anything that came close to what "the guy" used to have for sale....never found it. And several times, when I thought
I might have gotten something kinda good, a friend would show up with a joint of some weed that he'd been getting from his "the guy" forever, and it would just blow my commercial weed completely away! So, from my experience, the only thing that got better, was the trimming and overall "cleanliness" of the bud-presentation, but not the quality or taste of the actual smoke.
I stick to my guns on the genetics being the real deal breaker when it comes to whether or not the smoke will be good or not. Nutrients -regardless of how they are produced, can make the plants grow optimally....but they can't turn hemp into marijuana! And now, breeders have mucked up the game even more with all the ridiculous auto flower junk! They're always working on the wrong things when they SHOULD be getting back to focusing on the taste and vibe, instead. I don't need my weed to grow in a more convenient way! lol! I need stronger flavors and beautiful feels!
It's all about the genetic starting material. As long as a grower can provide a decent environment for the plants, then the plants will do the best that they are genetically-capable of doing. I've smoked weed that looked like the grower kicked the shit out of the plants and basically said "fuck it!" as far as providing great growing conditions....and yet the smoke was great, in spite of it all, because of its genetics. I've also smoked absolutely perfectly grown/cured weed that smoked like bunk -again, because of its genetics.
skywalker707
Member
Great thin mint cookies pheno can also compete with everything on effect / potency / vibe.. and will surpass 99.999999% of old school strains if you get the right pheno from them all..
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
All synthetics? Will any nutrient line outshine an organic grow, despite wildly varying levels of mineral concentrations, ratios, and supplemental products. Are you following a feed schedule or using mad science to crops steer the plants?
So you have tried all these lines out and they all produce the same expression?? Different expressions?? What is your experience?
Why are these terpenes more dominant using synthetic lines? All synthetic lines? Are there certain minerals being delivered in a synthetic grow that aren’t available from an organic grow? Which minerals are responsible for this “pattern” of terpene profile? What ratios/concentrations of minerals? That is the “science” that I’m after.
Farmer's Hat
Well-Known Member
Ive grown both synthetic and organic. From my experience, the organic grown flower produces a more nuanced high.
The analogy
Dr. Pepper vs Homemade root beer. Its all preference.
The analogy
Dr. Pepper vs Homemade root beer. Its all preference.
shorelineOG
Well-Known Member
It would be easier to compare a nutrient line across different mediums. Maxibloom can be used with soil, coco or ebb and flow.Alright, let me get this straight... Are you guys saying that ANY/EVERY synthetic line will get you the results you are talking about?
So… General Hydro, Botanicare, Fox Farm, Jacks, Maxigro, Dynagro ,Veg/Bloom, Cutting Edge, NPK, Dutch Pro, Flora Flex, Athena Ag, Canna, House & Garden, RX Green, Current Culture, Emerald Harvest, Heavy-16, Rock Nutrients, Advanced Nutrients, Cyco, Mills pays the bills and Miracle Grow will all give you the same results?? Same cannabinoids?? Same terpene profiles?? Same Flavors?? From the same plant??
I’m probably missing more than half of the popular options.
How long have you guys been growing again??
This should be good.
Then you can do a comparison of the medium.
tstick
Well-Known Member
It sure seems like it! A cute, little bud tender girl was trying to sell me on some strain and she told me, "This one makes me SO horny!"....LOL! I guess she must have thought that an old guy like me, would find that an attractive sales pitch. She was probably a stripper. Anyway...There's no way that anyone who wasn't there for the old school weed could ever hope to successfully argue the point of "New vs. Old", when they weren't even alive when the old school weed was around. That's why I say that you have to be a certain age in order to even recall the old-school days.
The name game has run its course, too. Anyone can go to 5 different dispensaries or retail shops and buy a version of Girl Scout Cookies (or whatever strain) and all of them will be different. There's no uniformity or consistency among most of them. And when you have to rely on a new-school "expert" opinion to give you the low down on what's good, then it will be an opinion based on their relatively-limited life experience. You must have lived it in order to know. "This one makes me SO horny!" ----LMFAO!
Kushash
Well-Known Member
I had similar experiences in Vegas. Dispensaries opened in 2015. I have respect for budtenders. I know some have good intentions to try to help people with different conditions. I haven't purchased in several years. Most of the time I'd enjoy the 1st few hits but never smoked a good sativa strain for a heavy smoker. Dispensaries are great for part time smokers. They may advertise sativa dominant strains, but they all have to compete growing 8-week strains vs the 11–13-week strains that a lot of us heavy smokers like.It sure seems like it! A cute, little bud tender girl was trying to sell me on some strain and she told me, "This one makes me SO horny!"....LOL! I guess she must have thought that an old guy like me, would find that an attractive sales pitch. She was probably a stripper. Anyway...There's no way that anyone who wasn't there for the old school weed could ever hope to successfully argue the point of "New vs. Old", when they weren't even alive when the old school weed was around. That's why I say that you have to be a certain age in order to even recall the old-school days.
The name game has run its course, too. Anyone can go to 5 different dispensaries or retail shops and buy a version of Girl Scout Cookies (or whatever strain) and all of them will be different. There's no uniformity or consistency among most of them. And when you have to rely on a new-school "expert" opinion to give you the low down on what's good, then it will be an opinion based on their relatively-limited life experience. You must have lived it in order to know. "This one makes me SO horny!" ----LMFAO!
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
Sure, which is alluding to the point I’m trying to make. You might get different expressions from the exact same fertilizer on the exact same plant, using different media because of how the fertilizer reacts with said media. Some fertilizer companies even make different lines for soil, coco, or straight hydroponics. Some don’t.
That’s partly why I find the umbrella statements of what Synthetic feed can do over Organic methods ironic and hilarious.
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