The ULTIMATE Flowering Spectrum
- Thread starter Fonzarelli
- Start date
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Agreed.......but the claims are extremely impressive, almost hard to believe=== "almost" nonexistent spectral shift while dimming, less than a three percent lumen depreciation at 10,000(!?!) hrs,........... AND the damn 220v dedicated line for the cerametek ballastThey are starting to get the right idea now at least. Give it some time and the price will drop, people will copy the tech and we will all be happily growing under a single point light source with a premo spectrum soon enough. Most of us anyway.With the new E-ballast tech for CMH, they are claiming 40,000 hour lamp specs with the new lamps. Can't beat that!
....I do think the wattage is too low for most, hence the #'s of systems cycloptics recommends for retrofits($$$). A six hundred watt equivalent would be better suited for all IMO. Please show some pics of the 860w allstart cmh when you get it==== runs on mag MH ballasts right????? thanks Fonz
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Yeah, runs on 1000w mag MH. Can anyone recommend a good 1000w MH mag? I was thinking of going with the Harvest Pro from SS for $100 from 1000bulbs.com or whatever. Seems like a decent price.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
I run a perpetual sog, monthly harvests in 4" rockwool blocks, ala Al B. Fuct.
Plants end up being about 20" tall.
I grow budsicles, so I'm very concerned with plant photomorphology!
My progression went 1000 HPS > 600HPS finish with party leds for the first 30 days > 600HPS finish with white led for first 30 days > 315 CMH finish with white led first 30 days > now 2 315s.
The plants display superior health over HPS and is comparable with running white leds.
Harvest is on par with running the single 1k or the 600w of hps and 400w led.
To cover a 3x3 table with home made leds would cost as much or more than the cycloptics fixture.
Heat and power would be about the same.
The scientific studies have mirrored my results. (less watts same photonic energy/less heat)
I've cut my electric bill by about $100 a month at this point for lights. AC runs less so the total savings is about $140 or so a month in my part of the woods and this time of the year.
The reflector is designed as a wave guide or as a HID headlight or as a omnidirectional antenna. (similar math) Not cheap nor easy. (minimize reflected signal/light bouncing back into the bulb)
Check out hidplanet to get a taste of the science involved.
They are also completely hand made in the USA.
Until recently Cycloptics has only made these things for growth chambers at research institutes and universities, a very small specialized market.
The luminaire did one thing over the HPS and leds for that matter.
The bud consistency is much better from one end of the table to the other. The light is very uniform!
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Growers house and discount hydro have good deals on mag ballasts. Too bad they wont work on digit ballasts. Just because of the power draw. Over 1100w on a mag.
I almost got to use cmh 's for free a couple months ago. After dude gave them to me (his wife wouldn't let him grow). Be started asking for loot a couple days later. Inwas broke so gave the lights back.
I almost got to use cmh 's for free a couple months ago. After dude gave them to me (his wife wouldn't let him grow). Be started asking for loot a couple days later. Inwas broke so gave the lights back.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I really appreciate the info and hard work you've done to provide all of us with this info.
Have you had the opportunity to try out the 860w Allstart CMH yet? I have one on the way along with a 1000w MH mag ballast. I figured it was worth a try to see how it compares to the 2 x 315w you are using. My only concern is the amount of blue that will be in the spectrum of the 860w. I wish I could find a SPD for it.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Just found a 1000w SS HP for $97. On it's way. After this I'm going to have to start selling some of my equipment just so I have room to set up the new equipment. Anyone in the market for HPS equipment? I know there is at least one in here that would be interested. haha
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much!
Being the disciplined obsessive compulsive type, the way I got to the 315 agro, was through having someone post the spectrum, (Rives)
after I had researched plant biology (Thank you SDS) and Leds. (Thanks go out to Knna and the gang.)
But not in that order.
So I just skipped over the other types/styles of CMH.
The 315 agro is a bit of a stretch over the 3x3, the light control really needs to be done very well.
Here is a pic of what was done with orca film (really works well) to capture the light.
Sorry no pic yet with the 2 315 lights.
What I am lighting is a 3x6 rectangle. No single luminaire is going to do the trick with that.
The 860 should work well, just because of the nature of the beast. (hope your lighting a square)
Ya, probably too much blue though.
IMHO, Where the ppf is high no problem, where the light is weaker, maybe some flowering and/or morphology problems.
I went into this with the thought that I could tune the light to the plant.
What I found out,
the plant tunes itself to the light.......
as best it can!
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I will still keep 4 x h150 Kessil red LEDs surrounding the Allstart 860w to equal out the extea amount of blue in the 4k light. This will also assure that there will be enough Red light hitting the corners of the square room. It will also boost the flowering capabilities of the 860w and bring the total watts to 1000w
This should be quite a bit better than the 1000w MH 3k I was using prior to the Allstart spectrum wise.
The actual SPD will be interesting as I cannot find a SPD anywhere online for the 860w. I also had to purchase an EX socket for the lamp. The reflector I will be using was purchased from Amazon and I will be venting it. I will take some photos upon completion for curious minds.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Yes the plants do adapt to the spectrum, but I've found the less they have to adapt and the more you provide for them the happier and faster they will grow.
Providing ample 630-670nm spectrum will boost the overall growth power of a blue heavy spectrum x3 and also give you a larger return rate. MH is blue heavy and even the Agro has more blue than necessary for budding. I'm sure some extra red led would boost the potential of your 315w x 2 Agro grow.
Providing ample 630-670nm spectrum will boost the overall growth power of a blue heavy spectrum x3 and also give you a larger return rate. MH is blue heavy and even the Agro has more blue than necessary for budding. I'm sure some extra red led would boost the potential of your 315w x 2 Agro grow.
I use leds primarily for the purpose of boosting the deep red spectrum, since it seems to be the region where most other lights have less. Fluoro 660s are expensive and short lived, CMH is very blue, hps while it has deep reds is way over balanced in Yellow\Orange.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Fonz look into the hydrofarm power house ballast. 1000w mag mh. $160, 8 year warranty. Runs the lowest amps of Mag's.
Dh has it the cheapest
http://www.discount-hydro.com/products/HydroFarm-Powerhouse-Ballast-.html
The one you were looking at will be pulling 1140w at the plug.
Dh has it the cheapest
http://www.discount-hydro.com/products/HydroFarm-Powerhouse-Ballast-.html
The one you were looking at will be pulling 1140w at the plug.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Ouch! Oh well, already done. Nice find tho.
mamakush
Active Member
I would argue that this statement only applies in the short term. Yes, a plant may be reasonably happy staying under the same mediocre spectrum (this is purely hypothetical, I'm not referencing any particular spectral source here) it's whole life, and yes, it may temporarily lose some vigor if switched to a different, all be it higher quality spectrum, but in the long run the plant (or at least it's progeny) will likely fare better after adjusting.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that plants grown without 610- 660 will adapt and fare better in the long run? I ain't buying that one
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I don't think you understood the statement. I didn't say it would temporarily lose vigor if switched to a higher quality spectrum. I said it will do better by NOT having to adjust to a higher quality spectrum. Therefore, you lose zero grow/flower time. Adding wavelengths that plants are already, by Nature are adapted to grow under will allow the plant to grow WITHOUT having to adapt. That's the whole point. The 630-670nm part of the spectrum is where ALL grow lights fail, except for a few new CMH lamps new to the industry. When you add this part of the spectrum to your grow, you see the plants take off as if on steroids, that is if everything else is dialed in correctly as well.
Sativa Dragon
Active Member
I think it is better said that a plant climatizes itself to different contions, I believe if the plant is getting the target light spectrums to trigger flowering or foliage growth, it will be happy. Everytime you change any condition of a growing space the plant no matter what it is will adjust for the changing condition granted the conditions do not fall out of optimal for the plant species.
Peace
Peace
exactly of course some leds heavy in that range are kicker
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
From what I've learned, mmj benefits most in flower from 630-650 nm, wheras most mfgs make 660 the dominant nm. Here's my source...
over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!)
>
most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photomorphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.
>
(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):
over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!)
>
most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photomorphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.
>
(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):