Why I think Tax Cuts For The Rich Are Good?

$200 billion annually is a nice chunk in terms of deficit and I have feeling if we were comparing the operation to privatized industry that waste figure is extremely generous. This is also pure waste, it doesn't include things we can easily live without.

But at the end of the day...you're right to a certain degree as over half of our spending is related to SS, medicare and entitlement programs and interest.

Not wanting to wade into the political waters at the moment, I will say that from an economic policy point of view, income tax policy does not seem to affect what wealthier households do with their money much.

From a study last year out of Moody's Analytics (note that if anything, they would be conservatively biased) --
"Research covering couples earning more than $210,000 found that spending by the wealthy is more likely to be influenced by the ups and downs of the stock market than changes in income-tax rates."(--edit this is a quote from a Moody's article on the report, not the report itself http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/rich-americans-save-money-from-tax-cuts-instead-of-spending-moody-s-says.html )

What did Moody's recommend?:
"Do not raise anyone's taxes in 2011, but phase in higher tax rates on the wealthy when the economy is off and running in 2012"

The problem is that the economy isn't 'off and running' yet. Ouch.

Here's a link to the report:
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Tax_Cuts_091510.pdf

Ernst said:

I voted yes if Rich means us all.

If we cut all taxes for everyone who has money even one penny then i am all in favor of cutting all taxes off of everything.

If you mean Rich as in those who have more than $100,000 then no I vote no on cutting taxes because voting yes to cut taxes for the rich means the poor have to pay more either in monies, loss of quality of life or both.

Hitler had a final solution for the problem of an unwanted class of people so what is to stop our rich elite from killing unwanted poor in a thousand years?
The Nazis saw the social burden of the poor and this is the final solution after they were reduced to skin and bones for every economic use possible. Then they pulled the gold from their teeth and burned them.

We are facing the same thing with the budget issue.. Why should our Economic Nazis be burdened with the financial responsibility for society?

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You are ruining my ending "The Final Soluition" for America' it's along the lines of Soilent Green.

Love me some Ernst

redivider said:

i'm just going to go ahead and lay down some cold, hard truth:

1) the government can operate under a 'deficit'. under-educated conservatives keep blaberring about the deficit as if it were such a huge problem. IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT A SOLVENCY MEASURE, AND OPERATING UNDER A DEFICIT IS NOT LIKE A CORPORATION OPERATING UNDER CONTINUING LOSSES. THE DEFICIT IS MEASURED AS A LEVEL, NOT AN AMOUNT THAT ACCUMULATES, ANYBODY WANT TO TAKE A GUESS WHY???

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Just a under-educated guess, our federal Government is on a cash basis, no amortization or deprecation.

Again you miss my point THEY ARE SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY, therefore leave the money where it belongs... in our hands.

You want bigger Government with more spending, I want no spending, let's finds a compromise.

redivider said:

2) the worst thing for the government to do to our economy right now is to start cutting spending left and right. that will HURT the recovery and give repukes a chance next election. they'll ride the wave of economic uncertainty and rise in unemployment, and won't shoulder any of the blame even though those cuts WILL hurt our economy.

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Any recovery hurt by decreased spending is no recovery

redivider said:

3) the wealthiest corporations and individuals are sitting on round 2-3 trillion dollars in CASH. not stocks, bonds, or treasuries... CASH. THEY ARE NOT PUTTING IT TO WORK.

that is all.

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The cash corportaions were sitting on was because of the uncertainity of the Tax Increases the Dems wanted to implement first of the year. They do not want to sit on it but have no idea based on an uncertain future.

mame said:

BTW the government does not waste money as people have said in this thread. The government goes through the same decision proccess to determine return on investment as everyone else. here is an explanation of the thought process they use. Looks like the same kinds of questions businesses ask... They look at costs and benefits in terms of dollars, social impact, potential future savings, optimum productivity levels...

Literally every single government agency and program is held to strict standards in terms of efficiency. Otherwise, they are ripe for defunding... To think all government spending is waste is idiocy at best - blantant partisanship at worst, considering if they were truly as wasteful as the Republicans would have you believe they'd have no problem justifying their removal (hint: they cant justify jack shit).​

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No agency of government ever lose $2.3 trillion of tax payer dollars?

[video=youtube;_rRqeJcuK-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRqeJcuK-A&feature=related[/video]

It is not a spending issue.... it is a revenue issue. We have a lot of waste that needs to get cut.... Education is not a waste, it's an investment into America's future leaders and business owners, the future tax base, yet the GOP plan reduces PELL Grants and the amount that can be borrowed for student loans. They reduce these investments by 25%, and turn around and issue more than 2.9 trillion dollars of ADDITIONAL tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. EVEN Ron Paul knew better than to vote for it. The DEMs are already making campaign posters to hold those Republicans that voted YES, responsible. I'm willing to bet the DEMs sweep the WH, the House and the Senate in 2012.

Thanks Mr Ryan and the Tea Party! Maybe your actions will wake Americans up. Additional wealthy tax breaks and nothing for the lower classes in the bill? Sounds like a recipe for tyranny....

Serapis said:

It is not a spending issue.... it is a revenue issue. We have a lot of waste that needs to get cut.... Education is not a waste, it's an investment into America's future leaders and business owners, the future tax base, yet the GOP plan reduces PELL Grants and the amount that can be borrowed for student loans. They reduce these investments by 25%, and turn around and issue more than 2.9 trillion dollars of ADDITIONAL tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. EVEN Ron Paul knew better than to vote for it. The DEMs are already making campaign posters to hold those Republicans that voted YES, responsible. I'm willing to bet the DEMs sweep the WH, the House and the Senate in 2012.

Thanks Ron Paul and the Tea Party! Maybe your actions will wake Americans up. Additional wealthy tax breaks and nothing for the lower classes in the bill? Sounds like a recipe for tyranny....

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It is a spending issue, but other than that I really enjoyed your post, I feel the same way.

Bonzi Lighthouse said:

Just a under-educated guess, our federal Government is on a cash basis, no amortization or deprecation.

Again you miss my point THEY ARE SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY, therefore leave the money where it belongs... in our hands.

You want bigger Government with more spending, I want no spending, let's finds a compromise.
Any recovery hurt by decreased spending is no recovery



The cash corportaions were sitting on was because of the uncertainity of the Tax Increases the Dems wanted to implement first of the year. They do not want to sit on it but have no idea based on an uncertain future.

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the federal deficit is a percentage of total GDP b/c it is a measure of how much of the money flowing through our economy comes from treasury securities. it's not b/c of how much money the government spends.

i don't want 'bigger government'. i'll take some cuts, but it's not the brainless cuts to medicare and less food stamps/militarization/tax cuts to the rich agenda the 'conservatives' are pushing.

for example:

the TSA, DEA and DHS can go. instead of just sending those workers to the unemployment office, i'd send 40% of the most qualified employees to specialized departments under the jurisdiction of the FBI. sell off all those field offices.....airport security can be left up to airlines. any terrorist attack will result in the immediate revocation of operating permits within the USA and immediate seizure of all assets within US borders or held by US financial institutions.

so basically what I'm saying is any social program which helps people in need stays. other waste of time programs can go.... and most programs that come to mind are military programs...

Dan Kone said:

While I disagree with your conclusion I respect the fact that you framed the question in an honest and rhetoric free way. Most people when discussing political issues imitate the hack talking heads on TV, you clearly think for yourself. Well done. +rep

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Hey you still have a little on your chin..

chillwills said:

I say fuck those companies making threats.

Go ahead and take your company overseas or out of America. We'll boycott your sorry ass.

Look at GE for an example. Do you really think they can afford to close shop and move offshore? I dare you. They basically paid little to nothing in taxes while making billions.

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your so wrong dude you know what it takes to make a company work and all the costs involved ???? lets just think for a moment, you need employees ok now lets see what a companys pays here just for a employee wages, WCB, prob after 3 months partial group insurance, such as death and disability, your payed by the hr now lets talk about lost time from you takin piss breaks during work hrs not on ur break???? or you talkin an extra 5 mins on your breaks when you should be at your work station who eats that up ???? THE COMPANY. How about courses etc thats payed by the company to better your self oh i forgot at companys expense

Lets get to the next no matter what it costs the employer to have employees yet you think they should be taxed higher
they buy material to build there taxed on that theres a fine line sure there tax incentives the government gives why??they want or should i say need manufacturing in this country which USA sold out on long time ago how can you be a farmer when you dont got a tractor ????? thats no different then in usa today

Look at GE for an example. Do you really think they can afford to close shop and move offshore? I dare you. They basically paid little to nothing in taxes while making billions. this is funny they couldnt if they wanted to they had there chance long ago no worries there hurting why would i buy that when i can get a better product for half the price thats what it all comes down to really with your taxes goin up and litterally everything else cause your governement are the ones that should be hung for all of this instead of pushing there problem of national debt on the shelf
whos goin to pay for this ??? i tell you everyone sure not the government the ones that fckt it up in the first place

Ernst said:

Hey you still have a little on your chin..

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so it's a bad thing to give people credit for having integrity? If you say so.

Looks pretty simple to me. The tax break for the wealthy didn't do our country any favors...why continue it in exchange for hanging middle and lower class out to dry? I am not saying I am Rep or Dem...just logical. If in fact it had helped out our economy, I would favor extending the breaks....but it didn't work, so logically...what would you do?

Out of control spending did not work either so lets reset the clock stop the spending and leave the money where it belongs, in the hands of all citizens that earned it in the first place.

If your not spending it theres no reason to take it from the people.

How bout tax cuts for everyone? why are the rich so special that they get a tax cut and others don't?

I definitely don't want people giving much money to the government no matter their standing in society. Government programs are a huge waste of money aside from the bare essentials.

out of control spending??

the only parts of the government that are out of control are the subsidies to past-century oil corporations, the cost+40% profit guaranteed to the military industrial complex, and the continuing trend towards eliminating government revenue.

I don't think I could call all government spending a waste.... I like schools, parks, library's...I like driving on the roads, using the post office...the list is pretty large, but I agree there is a lot we could do without.

As far as medical programs... would it be fiscally better to just let old and sick people live on the streets? Let them die off without medical insurance? I think that would cost more overall....I believe research has shown that preventative medicine can save not only lives but lots of money. Take away their insurance and they go to emergency with worse problems and we pay for it.

And when I was required to pay social security when first starting to work.... the agreement was that I could set a goal of 65 to work toward and then I could retire. We base our retirement savings on that age... now they want to raise that age, can I have some years back with good health so I can work more years to save up more for retirment?.....no. I paid into a system that would let me retire at 65, if that age limit is to be changed.... it is going to be a huge blow for older folks like me. I started working at 16, 65 is long enough.

I do think tax should be fair for everyone, not that the more you have the less you have to pay. We all pay. If you were in line at the movies and the person in front of you got a discount because they were rich, would that be right?

us americans are the consumers of the world. these companies rely on us to buy their products. if we taxed the products made outside of the US and brought in, we could potentially make up that money we are losing by not making that product here. it will cost the company about the same to make the product in the US, as it would to make it in china, then ship it here and pay the taxes. this will urge them to make factories here, for logistical purposes.

since we are the majority consumer, they will have to either pay up or close shop. im pretty sure they will pay

Luger187 said:

us americans are the consumers of the world. these companies rely on us to buy their products. if we taxed the products made outside of the US and brought in, we could potentially make up that money we are losing by not making that product here. it will cost the company about the same to make the product in the US, as it would to make it in china, then ship it here and pay the taxes. this will urge them to make factories here, for logistical purposes.

since we are the majority consumer, they will have to either pay up or close shop. im pretty sure they will pay

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so protectionism? you willing to pay $8000 for a i-phone? thats what apple said it would cost to make it here. all of the sudden everything you buy would cost 100s of times its current price. what is that gonna do to the poor and middle class?

this problem is purely a govt problem. govt needs to get the fuck out of the way, quit it with this tax the corporation to death crap, and let the countries citizens decide this stuff.

you cant compete with free thinking people. everytime govt acts, it limits free thinking. and protectionism will result in a lot of starving americans

45% of americans don't pay federal income tax....