Using marijuana as part of your prayer life if your a Christian..

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Psa 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psa 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments(laws)endureth for ever
Your misconception is that you think the Old covenant is perfect. There is error in this, the reason why Jesus came was because it was not perfect and in need of change.
You are the one with the misconception. Show me where Jesus said The Torah must change because it was imperfect.
"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

There is no wiggle room here for assuming, in any way, that the Law was not to be in full effect.

You may be able to eat whatever food you want but the point is that you seem to ignore is that there are some things that God said is not food. We are not talking about being ritually clean. Jesus may have declared all foods to be clean, i.e. but that doesn't mean that you can eat things that the Lord has said is not food.


I neither need nor want your pity. If you want to have a discussion, keep your personal comments to yourself.

 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
Please show me where I disregarded Jesus words. And of course Pauls words were the words of God as well! How little do you know about the New testament if you think otherwise!

"We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy

You continue to twist my words and claim I am the one twisting the bible. I never said I never read or desired the Old testament. I have read it cover to cover, I would never go off just a whim of thinking I know it in my heart, it is the Holy Spirit that has taken off the veil of the Old testament in my heart. Without Christ, the veil is still there and you cannot understand it.

But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2 Corinthians 3 14
I pity you. you are still stuck under the Old testament laws thinking salvation is found in them. Please turn to Christ and Come to the cross where true salvation awaits. There is freedom! There is forgiveness once and for all. Christ has died for your sins, you no longer have to be bound by all of these laws which you cannot even fulfill in the first place. And Jesus did declare ALL foods clean once and for all many times.

What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them." Matthew 15 11

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer" 1 Timothy 4

As you can see ALL food is clean and consecrated by the word of God and prayer. You are trying to deceive the people into the law like all of the enemies of Christ that He came against and the enemies of the apostles. With just one read through the New testament it is clear it is the law that does not save and it is the law that has been abolished (mosaic law) and by abolished I mean for us to practice it any longer. There is a greater covenant and the new one is here to stay while the former is passing away.

"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." Hebrews 8 13

The only use for the law for us now is to point us to Christ to show us the way to salvation. It is to point out our sins.

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[SUP]f[/SUP] The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. Galatians 3

Read carefully that scripture, these are the words of God, just as Jesus words for the Lord spoke from the Father just as the apostle Paul spoke from the Lord.

Going back, Pauls words never went against the Messiahs words at all. Show me where you think they did and I will prove you a liar.

"Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Proverbs 30 60


And the lie comes from the fact that we can be merely good on our own works. There is nothing we can do to inheir tsalvation or goodness on our own. I iwll leave you with this.

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Your misconception is that you think the Old covenant is perfect. There is error in this, the reason why Jesus came was because it was not perfect and in need of change. It could not save anyone at all. It was temporary sacrifice which was needed year after year and provided no true forgiveness of sins because if so, it would have only been needed one and for all.

"For if there has been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: "the time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This si the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declare the Lord. I will put my laws in their heart and write then on their hearts. I will be their God and the will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor or a man his brother, saying 'know the Lord' because they will all know me from the least to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." Hebrews 8

By calling this covenant "new", he has made the frist one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. hebrews 8 13
Good god you people live off the deep end.
 

JayDiggz

Member
Interesting debate. Ok, so the bible is a holy text, right? Written how long ago? Yes, it's "the Word according to the Holy Spirit" but that word had to pass through man's interpretations to be written down on paper, right? So here we are, how many hundreds of years later following the same text. There's great things to be had from the bible and I love the idea of using marijuana to expand a persons mind on those things (going to be delving into that one soon) but it's obvious that old school viewpoints are littered all over the bible (it may sound like a sexist text but given the time it was written i'd say they were giving women a pretty big break). You just gotta be able to pick through what the important stuff is.

My opinion; don't take things so literal, we come up with stories to understand the world around us.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
My opinion; don't take things so literal, we come up with stories to understand the world around us.
I agree 100%. But if you want to label yourself as a Christian, and you don't fallow it's teachings, you aren't a true Christian, you are a wannabee.

A half Christian if you will.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
I agree 100%. But if you want to label yourself as a Christian, and you don't fallow it's teachings, you aren't a true Christian, you are a wannabee.

A half Christian if you will.
The more I've thought about Christianity, the more I think there are two ways to apply it; the literal, and the allegorical. When you read the bible, and keep in mind the bias of various generations; you get a book that celebrates a person who lives a good life and gives a damn about his fellow man. If you read it as literal; that's when it gets ugly. I think that's an issue that we who aren't Christians have encouraged; The belief that if you don't fully buy into the bible; you are somehow less of a Christian.

I'm not saying I haven't done the same, but maybe we need to adapt to discouraging the bad in a religion, and encouraging the good in it; rather than just discouraging all parts of it. There's nothing wrong with any religion. When you start infringing one a disbeliever's life though; it becomes a dogma, and not a faith.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
I know I won't be because he who sent me is true and what I hear from him is exactly what I tell the world, just as Jesus said. Yes, I hear the Holy Spirit, as any believer has access to through faith and this is why I am able to be confident on the truth and not walk by blind faith, but by true faith which has evidence, after all Hebrews says faith is the evidence of things not yet seen. There is still evidence. My evidence comes from within, with my body being a temple and the Holy Spirit residing in it. This is why I have no fear of your condemnation aBout cannabis because Jesus has already told me a little is perfectly fine when used in the right context, just like alcohol. It is a sin to be drunk or living in debauchery, it is entirely possible to be sober while smoking a little aNd to be sober while drinking a little. These are not what matters, what matters is faith expressing itself through love by accomplishing the will of the Father in heaven. I pray to God your eyes will be opened, I am here as a witness to you that Jesus is the Christ, and the bible backs me up. As I have said earlier, I had no knowledge of Christ up to my experience and then one night was told about Jesus through the Holy Spirit, just as the scriptures say will happen. That is a sign to you of the one true God working.
This, to me, is the most compelling argument as to why religion is not universal. Any truly loving God is not going to judge his creation. We are a group of finite beings in the presence of an infinite being; there is no way we could come close to reasoning on the same level as God. However, I feel that an infinite being would not judge us based on our limited perceptions. Damning us based upon a finite transgression is as ridiculous as saying you can read an infinite God's mind.
 

JayDiggz

Member
I agree 100%. But if you want to label yourself as a Christian, and you don't fallow it's teachings, you aren't a true Christian, you are a wannabee.

A half Christian if you will.
Valid, know your shit before you blow your shit. But that leaves me wondering what to call myself. Half-agnostic-1/3-buddist-3/8-anarchist-2/5-new-age-spirituality with an underlying hint of being baptized as roman catholic. Has a ring to it.
 

carl.burnette

Well-Known Member
But how are we not following the teachings? Until we know waht those teachings are we can't follow them. That's what I started this thread about.

Not for theological arguments, but to see if there were other's that use pot as part of their prayer life.[

I have been going to church for years (read previous posts) & it wasnt until I started reading the scriptures for myself asking the Lord to open my eyes & for the leading of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures became ALIVE! I'm sure I'm not the only one & I want to speak to like minded people.

You have no idea if I am a Christian. I say I am because I follow Him. But to say I am not because I don't follow Him the way YOU percieve Him is what the pharasies did.

Part of the freedom of being a Christian is not being tied down to laws that save us. That was all completed at the cross.

Its by faith alone we are saved & therefore as one of the elect I will be in heaven someday. I think from what I am getting in my studying of the Word is first part of being a Christian is getting saved then the rest is the working of the Holy Spirit in your life. What that means to you is your own.

I don't judge because I'm not God. You do what you do & someday we all will stand before the Big Guy & then we'll find out one way or another weather we were supposed to drink wine or not drink any at all, or if we were to dance to the Lord or to not dance because its sultry & leads to sin.

Those are the things the Pharasies faught over & demaned people to do. Jesus spoke totaly against that. He said if your going to argue about it then pretend it doesnt exisr (paraphrase of course.. sorry)

Anyways.

Praise God that we can do this in love.


I agree 100%. But if you want to label yourself as a Christian, and you don't fallow it's teachings, you aren't a true Christian, you are a wannabee.

A half Christian if you will.
 

carl.burnette

Well-Known Member
That's been discussed. The fact that the words of the bible are more important to some than what the words SPEAK about. Its not what gets put on the alter than make it holy, its the alter itself that makes the sacrifice holy.
There may be errors in translation or grammer in your version of the Bible (King James compared to NIV) but what they talk about is perfection.

That's my take anyways..
The more I've thought about Christianity, the more I think there are two ways to apply it; the literal, and the allegorical. When you read the bible, and keep in mind the bias of various generations; you get a book that celebrates a person who lives a good life and gives a damn about his fellow man. If you read it as literal; that's when it gets ugly. I think that's an issue that we who aren't Christians have encouraged; The belief that if you don't fully buy into the bible; you are somehow less of a Christian.

I'm not saying I haven't done the same, but maybe we need to adapt to discouraging the bad in a religion, and encouraging the good in it; rather than just discouraging all parts of it. There's nothing wrong with any religion. When you start infringing one a disbeliever's life though; it becomes a dogma, and not a faith.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
If you want to label yourself as a Christian, then you must fallow the bible and all of it's teachings, even the ones you may not like or agree with. If you don't, then you aren't a Christian. You would be referred to as;

An apologetic Christian. -Someone who twists the passages of the bible to accumulate their own desires, rather than fallow the holy scriptures.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
I am going to respond back to the previous comments in a little while, but how is a Christian apologetic someone who twists the passages of the bible? A christian apologetic is defined as someone that defends views. Everyone who is a christian that defends any part of the bible in its truth is an apologetic.

Do some people that label themselves as apologetics twist the bible? Of course, but that does not mean anyone who defends the bible is twisting it. Paul had to defend the truth all the time, so did Jesus.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
^Agreed. So what do you call someone who want's to be labeled a Christian, that doesn't fallow the teachings of the bible? A half Christian? Or a faker? Maybe we could make up a word for it... let me think on that.
 

JayDiggz

Member
If you want to label yourself as a Christian, then you must fallow the bible and all of it's teachings, even the ones you may not like or agree with. If you don't, then you aren't a Christian. You would be referred to as;

An apologetic Christian. -Someone who twists the passages of the bible to accumulate their own desires, rather than fallow the holy scriptures.
I agree. A Christian is someone who seeks Christ and his teaching. Right?

But just to be clear (sorry if I missed this in previous posts, i'm not fully caught up on the entire thread) is the context of this argument based on a belief that it is a sin to smoke weed? Has that been discussed yet? Is it truly a sin to smoke weed? And therefore if you smoke you are not a Christian?

It would be hard to not "twist" the passages on this argument. Back when the bible was written was mj not considered medicinal? Therefore making it an acceptable practice, Christian or not.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Peter 5:8,9 - Be sober so we can be on guard for the devil, resist him, and not be devoured by him. Realizing how dangerous Satan is, we should keep our minds clear so we can recognize his deceit and resist his temptations.

The bible is full of passages that surmise being anything but sober is a sin.

Being high... is not being sober. Therefor according to the bible, willfully becoming high from smoking cannabis is a sin.

Personally, with my views, i don't think it is bad or wrong to smoke cannabis. But i don't fallow the Christian doctrine... if i did, i probably wouldn't smoke cannabis because it is portrayed in the bible as a sin.

But the world is cock-full of Christian Halflings. /shrug
 

carl.burnette

Well-Known Member
But you are comparing us to YOUR understanding of Christian beliefs.

You are looking in from the outside.

Drinking wine isnt being drunk. It can lead to being drunk.. Same as weed, you can smoke some weed & not be sinnfully high. It would be like taking Oxy for tooth pain, that's ok but taking 3 to get wasted is a different senerio.

I am talking about using some pot to clear my mind & to open it up to listening to the workings of the Holy Spirit. And as the bible says, what may be sinful to someone isnt to another. And if what your doing is sinful to the weaker brother then you shouldn't do it. Therefore I wouldnt smoke pot around people that found it went against their walk. Same as the bible allows is to drink, but not around an alcoholic because it could cause them to stumble.

But as a non Christian you can't see it from my point of view because as the bible says what we do seems pecular to people not of the faith.
 

JayDiggz

Member
So being high constitutes being "not sober"? Even if you take the tiniest of a baby bong hoot and can still function normally after? ie, drive a car, clean the house, have a legitimate convo with the grandparents.

The issue seems pretty black and white to you, Zaehet. When they wrote the word "sober" in the bible do you think they had being high in mind? I think it's safe to argue that we've been "getting high" for thousands of years. Our concept of it is just different these days.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
I think it all just depends on what you want to risk if you want to be considered a "Christian". As the bible promotes and condones slavery and rape, while demoting women and same sex relationships (among many other concepts that i personally do not agree with) ... those are also "rules" that you must obey in order to avoid damnation for all of eternity. These "rules" are conceptualized throughout the entire bible.

As a Christian attempting to fallow the doctrine of the holy bible there are a few different things you can do;

1. You can read the bible, and interpret it your own way. Risking eternal damnation for your soul if your objective perspective of the bible is wrong.

2. You can allow someone else to read the bible, fallow their personal subjective interpretation of the book, while also risking eternal damnation for your soul.

3. Read the bible at face value, believe in it's teachings regardless of how they make you feel and if the concepts go against what you think is right and wrong, or if they interfere with your sense of morality. Do not try to justify your behavior by giving the words your own meaning. Only then will you not have to worry about risking your soul's damnation this way.

It all just depends on what you want to risk. People say they believe in the bible and the word of god. Yet they only believe in the parts of the bible that agree with their own views or values. This is also a cop out and won't work if you wish to achieve salvation and walk though the golden gates after death.

Like i've tried to explain before, you go to any hard core Christian activist who believe in every word of the bible, a "True Christian" and they won't lie to you either, they will tell you exactly what i am telling you. That smoking cannabis is a sin, that it's not too late to repent, ask for forgiveness and change your behavior to achieve salvation. But if you don't, you will burn for eternity in the pits of hell.

I'm not here to argue with you, i'm here telling you the facts. I know it's not what you want to hear, but you are going to hear only what you want regardless... this is exactly what the vast majority of people do when they read the bible.

It's your soul, you take whatever chances you want. /shrug
 
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