Using marijuana as part of your prayer life if your a Christian..

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I come to you testifying I hear the Holy Spirit, just as the bible states will happen to beleivers after Jesus rose from the grave, therefore I am a witness to you that what the bible claims to be true, is actually true.
No, you are claim to what you believe the bible states is true is actually true. You believe you hear the Holy Spirit, and you believe the bible tells you when Jesus has risen you will hear the Holy Spirit which confirms your preconceived bias (confirmation bias).

My witness does not come from myself, but from Him who sent me, Jesus Christ. My testimony is weighty, not because it is on my own accord, but because him who sent me is true just as the scriptures testify.
Except there is no way to objectively confirm what you say beyond word of mouth. So why should any reasonable/rational person believe it?
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
I heard from the Holy Spirit long before I knew anything in the bible. I never knew anything about Jesus until one night when the Holy Spirit came to me and revealed who Jesus was, and THEN he told me to get a bible and read it. Afterwards, reading the bible, I saw what happened was what Jesus said would happen to beleivers after he rose from the dead, that he would give the Holy Spirit out.

That is a witness and a sign to you that what the bible says is true, as a Christian, that does not lie, as lying is a sin, what gain would I have in doing so?

“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. John 5

This was Jesus testimony, and not only did he have the Father as his witness, but his works displayed himself as the son of God, in the same way, my works, which you have not seen because you do not know me personally, display myself to be a true christian.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
I heard from the Holy Spirit long before I knew anything in the bible. I never knew anything about Jesus until one night when the Holy Spirit came to me and revealed who Jesus was, and THEN he told me to get a bible and read it. Afterwards, reading the bible, I saw what happened was what Jesus said would happen to beleivers after he rose from the dead, that he would give the Holy Spirit out.

That is a witness and a sign to you that what the bible says is true, as a Christian, that does not lie, as lying is a sin, what gain would I have in doing so?

“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. John 5

This was Jesus testimony, and not only did he have the Father as his witness, but his works displayed himself as the son of God, in the same way, my works, which you have not seen because you do not know me personally, display myself to be a true christian.
You aren't getting the point. If you smoke cannabis, according to the bible, you are going to hell, bottom line. You cannot justify yourself out of that fact.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
[SUP]Exactly. That was God's righteous and wise plan.
[/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”


Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

1 Corinthians 1
So god can overcome everything but sin? In order for us to be okay with him, he had to kill his son first? I'm not following how that actually makes sense...

Why not just banish sin from creation, seeing as you define all rules for creation, and not kill your kid off?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I heard from the Holy Spirit long before I knew anything in the bible. I never knew anything about Jesus until one night when the Holy Spirit came to me and revealed who Jesus was, and THEN he told me to get a bible and read it. Afterwards, reading the bible, I saw what happened was what Jesus said would happen to beleivers after he rose from the dead, that he would give the Holy Spirit out.
Forgive me if I doubt your description of the sequents of events, which is not to say that I think you're lying, which in fact, I don't. I simply think you're interpreting the data received by your senses wrong, or being inconsistent while analyzing it. Or not acknowledging human error.

That is a witness and a sign to you that what the bible says is true, as a Christian, that does not lie, as lying is a sin, what gain would I have in doing so?
The gain you would have is substantiating your point using a real life example, which, again, you believe is true. This seems to be an unresolved issue, you must understand, what you believe​ to be true and what actually is true (backed up by empirical evidence) are two completely different things. One is substantiated by evidence, and the other is not. One is used when discerning reality, the other is not..


I'm afraid the rest of that post was pretty much unintelligible..
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Because God gives everyone a choice, that is why he allowed Adam and Eve to be in the garden of Eden and either choose his creation and Him, or choose the one command he said not to do. They chose that and sin entered the world, after that point he would have had to wipe out all creation, but instead he chose to love us and provide a way for us to be forgiven.

And Zahet, you haven't gotten the point because you do not know God, nor the scriptures, if you would then you would understand that smoking cannabis in moderation is not sin. Just the same as alcohol in moderation is not sin. I will not stand by and watch you continue to deceive people into thinking they are going to hell when it is not true. I have done my part, please stop with the pointless comments. That is all on this issue. I have made my comments, with scripture to refute it and you choose to ignore that.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Forgive me if I doubt your description of the sequents of events, which is not to say that I think you're lying, which in fact, I don't. I simply think you're interpreting the data received by your senses wrong, or being inconsistent while analyzing it. Or not acknowledging human error.



The gain you would have is substantiating your point using a real life example, which, again, you believe is true. This seems to be an unresolved issue, you must understand, what you believe​ to be true and what actually is true (backed up by empirical evidence) are two completely different things. One is substantiated by evidence, and the other is not. One is used when discerning reality, the other is not..


I'm afraid the rest of that post was pretty much unintelligible..
empirical evidence will prove itself when people are around me, as the works Jesus did, will also be done by Christians as time progresses when the will of God comes to pass. I have seen many miracles, performed many, but it is not just these that point to the Father, even though they do, it is our love. Jesus said by this, love, the world will know we are his disciples. You cannot see my love and actions simply by word of mouth over a forum. That is why I do what I can by spreading the word by mouth over here and leave the rest to those i am physically present with.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Because God gives everyone a choice, that is why he allowed Adam and Eve to be in the garden of Eden and either choose his creation and Him, or choose the one command he said not to do.
God gave finite creatures with no knowledge of the infinite a "choice" that they could not even begin to understand the ramifications of; all the while, being all-knowing, he knew the end result before it happened. I don't get a pass for knowingly letting someone commit a crime, why does god get a pass for letting all of us get damned when he could have simply avoided planting that tree? Without your god's creation of it, sin would not exist; genesis makes that clear as day.

Would you give a toddler a lighter and a can of gas and say "Don't light this, or you will surely die."? It's the same principle; people that have no concept of death attach no meaning to it.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Adam and eve knew it would cause death. God made that clear to them. Why did God plant it there? To give them a choice, he doesn't want to reign over anyone forcibly.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Because God gives everyone a choice, that is why he allowed Adam and Eve to be in the garden of Eden and either choose his creation and Him, or choose the one command he said not to do. They chose that and sin entered the world, after that point he would have had to wipe out all creation, but instead he chose to love us and provide a way for us to be forgiven.
No, he set up a trap in which Eve succumbed to. He knew exactly what would happen, and used it as justification to torture mankind eternally. Again, if you can't think of a system more efficient than Christianity, you don't deserve to be the creator of the universe. I myself could come up with a system which would ensure 100% of my creation enters my kingdom of Heaven. 100%, am I better than an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, supreme being?
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
No you are not, and it WILL be proven to you in this life that Jesus is far greater then you currently understand. He will send people to you to show you the questions you ask, but when that day comes, will you be wise enough to accept?

Jesus did not set up a trap, nor a temptation, he set up free will.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Adam and eve knew it would cause death. God made that clear to them. Why did God plant it there? To give them a choice, he doesn't want to reign over anyone forcibly.
Give a child rat poison that smells and looks like sweets sometime, and tell them it's deadly; get back to me on how many of them eat it anyways.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
No you are not, and it WILL be proven to you in this life that Jesus is far greater then you currently understand. He will send people to you to show you the questions you ask, but when that day comes, will you be wise enough to accept?

Jesus did not set up a trap, nor a temptation, he set up free will.
How is there free will when there is a "divine plan"? If god knows all, there is no such thing as free will, it's all preconceived.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Give a child rat poison that smells and looks like sweets sometime, and tell them it's deadly; get back to me on how many of them eat it anyways.
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures. If you did, you would understand these children you are referring to are sinners, they are born with the sin nature and the sin nature despises authority. These children have an innate desire to go with their passions and desires over what is right vs wrong. Adam and eve did not have that. Sin netered the world after Adam ate from the fruit.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
How is there free will when there is a "divine plan"? If god knows all, there is no such thing as free will, it's all preconceived.
God knows who will choose what, all of our paths are set before the Lord, he sees all of our heart, even the parts we don't currently know about. He uses that to work towards his divine plan, you are speaking on matters far grater then what you can currently understand. If you understand God is infinite in wisdom and knowledge, then how can you try to grasp this process already? I am in no way, shape or form, stating we should not seek after knowing these questions, as we should, what I am stating is that these questions are one to seek out first, before claiming to know answers to. If you get knowledge from the church, you should seek out the knowledge from the bible first.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
No you are not, and it WILL be proven to you in this life that Jesus is far greater then you currently understand. He will send people to you to show you the questions you ask, but when that day comes, will you be wise enough to accept?
This sounds like a cop out, again, as if to say that when these supposid people show, I'll have build up a wall too powerful to breach. "Wise enough"? Is that some sort of play on words to undermine my current ability? "You're obviously not wise enough now, will you be wise enough then?" (and when you're not, because you clearly won't accept the same BS then as you won't now, I'll just confirm that no, you're not in fact wise enough to accept it.. and that'll be that...)

Jesus did not set up a trap, nor a temptation, he set up free will.
There is no such thing as 'free will' in Christianity
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures. If you did, you would understand these children you are referring to are sinners, they are born with the sin nature and the sin nature despises authority. These children have an innate desire to go with their passions and desires over what is right vs wrong. Adam and eve did not have that. Sin netered the world after Adam ate from the fruit.
I spent years reading the bible; I was born into a fundamentalist Baptist family. I know a thing or two about the bible, having read it front to back on an occasion or two. Reading the bible is actually what made me realize how little sense it makes. I couldn't endorse a religion that takes it's moral guidance from a book that tells you that your god knew Adam and Eve would sentence the world to eternal damnation , and still let that happen. An all powerful being could have created a world of peace, happiness, and padded corners; instead we have pain, suffering, genocide, disease, and eternal damnation. The bible is not literal buddy. If you read it with consideration to the times within which it was written, it makes a lot more sense.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
This sounds like a cop out, again, as if to say that when these supposid people show, I'll have build up a wall too powerful to breach. "Wise enough"? Is that some sort of play on words to undermine my current ability? "You're obviously not wise enough now, will you be wise enough then?" (and when you're not, because you clearly won't accept the same BS then as you won't now, I'll just confirm that no, you're not in fact wise enough to accept it.. and that'll be that...)



There is no such thing as 'free will' in Christianity
You are not understanding what I am saying, I am not claiming anything on your current wisdom. I am stating that when that day comes when these answers you are seeking are answered to you, as they currently have not been yet, will you accept them? I am not trying to undermine your current wisdom at all.

And free will comes at all times, we have the ability to deliberately sin as christians, though that would cause us to fall away from God, and we have the ability to believe in Christ. Jesus wouldn't say anyone who believes has the right to become children of God. Instead he would have said anyone I make to believe. People take out of context this single verse in most churches which leads to a false notion of predestination. "No one can come to me unless the Father has drawn them" is what is taken out of context, and not put together with the rest of the bible which clearly shows free will. It all fits together, much like a puzzle, you cant take a few pieces and claim to know what the full piece is like. You can throw out some suggestions and some possible answers, but you cant be sure until you see the whole picture. Anything could be drawn in art, just like there are things in the bible that have to be understood in the full context of the book.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
I spent years reading the bible; I was born into a fundamentalist Baptist family. I know a thing or two about the bible, having read it front to back on an occasion or two. Reading the bible is actually what made me realize how little sense it makes. I couldn't endorse a religion that takes it's moral guidance from a book that tells you that your god knew Adam and Eve would sentence the world to eternal damnation , and still let that happen. An all powerful being could have created a world of peace, happiness, and padded corners; instead we have pain, suffering, genocide, disease, and eternal damnation. The bible is not literal buddy. If you read it with consideration to the times within which it was written, it makes a lot more sense.
There are many things wrong with the fundamentalist beliefs, many that do not coincide with the true God of the bible. They are one of the worst out there, pharisees. If you go into reading the bible with what they teach, you cannot understand the bible because they do not teach the truth of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit that guides us into understanding the scriptures, without Him we cannot understand it.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
God knows who will choose what, all of our paths are set before the Lord, he sees all of our heart, even the parts we don't currently know about. He uses that to work towards his divine plan, you are speaking on matters far grater then what you can currently understand. If you understand God is infinite in wisdom and knowledge, then how can you try to grasp this process already? I am in no way, shape or form, stating we should not seek after knowing these questions, as we should, what I am stating is that these questions are one to seek out first, before claiming to know answers to. If you get knowledge from the church, you should seek out the knowledge from the bible first.
Yes, god knows all, that's why all that time before humanity doesn't exist in the bible. The earth was "without form and void" before he first human, yet there is some rather compelling evidence to the contrary. Then, there's that business where Adam names ALL the creatures god created. Did he have some sort of submarine tech we haven't come close to rediscovering?
 
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