herming my garden
- Thread starter herbbilly
- Start date
puffntuff
Well-Known Member
It's called selection. No hermie is ever stable. Just like you have brothers and sisters from the same parents that favor one or the other parent you get the same thing with breeding plants. Same parents different characteristics.
thats why it takes along time to get stable gene. You pick the characteristics you like. Plant A produces a lot while plant B tastes better. Plant C does both. You get what I'm saying.
thats why it takes along time to get stable gene. You pick the characteristics you like. Plant A produces a lot while plant B tastes better. Plant C does both. You get what I'm saying.
puffntuff
Well-Known Member
Basically DNA chose the female that had the least hermitic trait. I grew out sharksbreath from them and it did the same thing. Threw empty sacs at about the 7th week I let it go for about 11 weeks chopped her and threw the clones away I cut. I don't want hermies in my garden.
isolate them then, and test the seeds from the hermie x hermie
or
keep together and test seeds of hermie x female
or throw out hermies and dont invest money into growing them.
if you want to keep them, you dont need a lot of light. 150 of fluor will do
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-FLC125W-125-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B002TJS7LE/ref=pd_sim_lg_4
http://www.buylighting.com/150-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-5000K-Full-Spectrum-p/fe-iiib-150w-50k.htm
or
keep together and test seeds of hermie x female
or throw out hermies and dont invest money into growing them.
if you want to keep them, you dont need a lot of light. 150 of fluor will do
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-FLC125W-125-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B002TJS7LE/ref=pd_sim_lg_4
http://www.buylighting.com/150-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-5000K-Full-Spectrum-p/fe-iiib-150w-50k.htm
Pipe Dream
Well-Known Member
I really don't understand why you just didn't use a male. From the sound of it you don't really care about the "father" you just want the sour. I mean if you just wanted the sour you could have just selfed it and would have likely got more similar plants to the sour when now you just made a hybrid which will have all sorts of different possible outcomes.
herbbilly
Active Member
Couple of key ingredient missing from your idea a male and or seeds to produce one. What's wrong with options I'm not doomed to a life of horrible grass as I see it might just love one of em and get lucky
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Everything Trousers said above is correct.
First of all, **ALL** cannabis plants (male or female) have the ability to make male flowers as a natural survival mechanism hard-coded into their DNA. Virtually every wild female cannabis plant in nature will put out some male flowers at the end of flowering, if not sooner. This is NORMAL. With modern medical/drug strains, the tendency of female plants to do this has been deliberately suppressed by selective breeding, that's all. The reason, of course, is that seedless crops are what's most desirable from a medical/drug standpoint.
But even female plants from these strains can still put out male flowers under the right (/wrong) conditions: light stress (light during the "dark" period, or a variety of other light patterns during flowering), temperature stress, nutrient stress, being grown long past their maturity date (this has been called "rodelization"), or use of external chemical or hormonal agents (colloidal silver, gibberelic acid), etc.
Next, unlike human beings that are normally either "only male" or "only female" cannabis plants in nature can show a wide variety of sexual phenotypes. You can have genetically female plants that will show a. all female flowers, b. mostly female flowers, but with rare male flowers, c. lots of male AND female flowers. On top of this, there are different phenotypes of flower production: Single male flowers can appear within clusters of female flowers, they can appear as clusters of all male flowers on otherwise female plants, and (if I remember right) in some cases you can even have "intersex" flowers with both male and female characteristics. The issue of "hermies" is a bit complicated, but the point is, what most people call "hermie" plants are actually NORMAL for the species.
The answer to the original question is, if you cross a normal female plant with pollen that comes from a female plant with a few male flowers on it, the offspring will all be females. The simplified genetic explanation of why is that female plants contain only "X" chromosomes and no amount of crossing them can ever create a male plant with a "Y" chromosome.
The next question is, if you create "feminized" seeds by crossing two female plants, will the offspring be prone to "go hermie" (ie make male flowers)? I think this is what everyone is really concerned about. . .that if you use a "hermie" for breeding, that line will be plagued with them from that point onward.
The answer to this question, is that it depends mostly on the GENETICS of the original parents. Stress is not genetically inherited, and so far as I know the "feminization" process doesn't alter a plants DNA. Again, its perfectly normal for female cannabis plants to make male flowers and fertilize other female plants, and this sort of thing happens all the time in nature.
If both female parents are properly bred medical/drug strains that are resistant to making male flowers, then the offspring should be too, irrespective of what exact mechanism triggered the "father" to make male flowers.
If either female parent is susceptible to "going hermie" from light or heat stress, then its likely the same trait will be passed onto some or all of the offspring. If both parents are susceptible, its almost a given that all offspring will be too. And of course of either or both female parents are prone to making male flowers normally (ie without any special stress), then of course the offspring will likely inherit that trait too.
In my opinion, THIS is why you have to be careful about using pollen from female plants for breeding. If you're making an otherwise hermie-resistant female plant create pollen using chemical or hormonal stress, the offspring should also be hermie resistant. But if you're "promiscuously" applying pollen from a "slutty" female plant that is prone to making male flowers early in flowering, or due to light stress, then you're going to be creating offspring with the same tendency.
First of all, **ALL** cannabis plants (male or female) have the ability to make male flowers as a natural survival mechanism hard-coded into their DNA. Virtually every wild female cannabis plant in nature will put out some male flowers at the end of flowering, if not sooner. This is NORMAL. With modern medical/drug strains, the tendency of female plants to do this has been deliberately suppressed by selective breeding, that's all. The reason, of course, is that seedless crops are what's most desirable from a medical/drug standpoint.
But even female plants from these strains can still put out male flowers under the right (/wrong) conditions: light stress (light during the "dark" period, or a variety of other light patterns during flowering), temperature stress, nutrient stress, being grown long past their maturity date (this has been called "rodelization"), or use of external chemical or hormonal agents (colloidal silver, gibberelic acid), etc.
Next, unlike human beings that are normally either "only male" or "only female" cannabis plants in nature can show a wide variety of sexual phenotypes. You can have genetically female plants that will show a. all female flowers, b. mostly female flowers, but with rare male flowers, c. lots of male AND female flowers. On top of this, there are different phenotypes of flower production: Single male flowers can appear within clusters of female flowers, they can appear as clusters of all male flowers on otherwise female plants, and (if I remember right) in some cases you can even have "intersex" flowers with both male and female characteristics. The issue of "hermies" is a bit complicated, but the point is, what most people call "hermie" plants are actually NORMAL for the species.
The answer to the original question is, if you cross a normal female plant with pollen that comes from a female plant with a few male flowers on it, the offspring will all be females. The simplified genetic explanation of why is that female plants contain only "X" chromosomes and no amount of crossing them can ever create a male plant with a "Y" chromosome.
The next question is, if you create "feminized" seeds by crossing two female plants, will the offspring be prone to "go hermie" (ie make male flowers)? I think this is what everyone is really concerned about. . .that if you use a "hermie" for breeding, that line will be plagued with them from that point onward.
The answer to this question, is that it depends mostly on the GENETICS of the original parents. Stress is not genetically inherited, and so far as I know the "feminization" process doesn't alter a plants DNA. Again, its perfectly normal for female cannabis plants to make male flowers and fertilize other female plants, and this sort of thing happens all the time in nature.
If both female parents are properly bred medical/drug strains that are resistant to making male flowers, then the offspring should be too, irrespective of what exact mechanism triggered the "father" to make male flowers.
If either female parent is susceptible to "going hermie" from light or heat stress, then its likely the same trait will be passed onto some or all of the offspring. If both parents are susceptible, its almost a given that all offspring will be too. And of course of either or both female parents are prone to making male flowers normally (ie without any special stress), then of course the offspring will likely inherit that trait too.
In my opinion, THIS is why you have to be careful about using pollen from female plants for breeding. If you're making an otherwise hermie-resistant female plant create pollen using chemical or hormonal stress, the offspring should also be hermie resistant. But if you're "promiscuously" applying pollen from a "slutty" female plant that is prone to making male flowers early in flowering, or due to light stress, then you're going to be creating offspring with the same tendency.
"The answer to this question, is that it depends mostly on the GENETICS of the original parents. Stress is not genetically inherited, and so far as I know the "feminization" process doesn't alter a plants DNA. Again, its perfectly normal for female cannabis plants to make male flowers and fertilize other female plants, and this sort of thing happens all the time in nature.
"
if it doesnt alter dna (script for the childs physical makeup) then how does a seed become feminized, or mostly female? this is becuase it altered the dna of the genepool..it puts a mutation on the male chromosome, which makes it feminized, or more likely to be an xx.
"The answer to this question, is that it depends mostly on the GENETICS of the original parents."
yes, the plants inheriet the ability to not hermie, and guess how/which are the most stable? the ones THAT WE DIDNT FUCK WITH AT ALL!! THEY ARE MALE AND FEMALE FROM THE GETGO.
you correct and incorrect about some things.
"
if it doesnt alter dna (script for the childs physical makeup) then how does a seed become feminized, or mostly female? this is becuase it altered the dna of the genepool..it puts a mutation on the male chromosome, which makes it feminized, or more likely to be an xx.
"The answer to this question, is that it depends mostly on the GENETICS of the original parents."
yes, the plants inheriet the ability to not hermie, and guess how/which are the most stable? the ones THAT WE DIDNT FUCK WITH AT ALL!! THEY ARE MALE AND FEMALE FROM THE GETGO.
you correct and incorrect about some things.
Pipe Dream
Well-Known Member
nothing is wrong with it, I just would rather try to reverse the known dank plant that doesn't throw male flowers under normal circumstances over a plant that spits them out at 7 weeks with no instigation. The plants don't even need me to make those seeds, they can do that all by themselves. Not to mention how many 1000s of seeds are you planning on making? You could of sacrificed a single plant or branch and had plenty of seeds for years to come, so to answer your question, yes I think you are a bit nuts.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be an ass, but to seriously discuss breeding, genetics, selection, hermaphroditism, etc, we have to be sure we are talking about the same things, and that means using the terms consistently.
Just to clarify here, making se-eds isn't the same thing as breeding. Lots of people use these terms interchangeably, but they are not the same thing, and the distinction is important.
The goal of breeding isn't merely to create se-eds, its to create genetic LINES that express a specific set of traits that you're interested in. Breeding requires SELECTION of genetic traits from offspring to isolate and combine them. Of course making se-eds is part of the way to reach that goal, but its not the end in and of itself. If you're not doing selection, you're really not doing breeding.
To answer your question, the way to create se-eds is to apply pollen onto the pistils of a receptive female plant. The pollen could come from a male plant, or it could come from male flowers found on a female plant (ie "hermie" flowers). Its even possible to pollinate a female plant with pollen that comes from ITSELF. The pollen could be applied by careful individual hand-pollenization, for example using a Q-tip or small paintbrush, OR it could be transmitted through the air in a process called "open pollenization".
How you get the pollen and how you apply it depends on what exactly you're trying to do, but no pollen. . .no se-eds.
What do you mean by "stable"?
If you're talking about what is usually termed genetic "stability" (which is a way of describing how "true breeding" a line is), that's going to depend on the genetics of the plant in question.
If you're talking about whether or not the plant in question is prone to making female flowers, that's a trait that you can observe. If you've got a female plant covered in male flowers, its probably not genetically desirable from a "hermie" perspective, and you probably don't want to make ceeds with it. On the other hand, if you deliberately created a few male flowers by applying colloidal silver to an otherwise perfectly good female plant, then the pollen they create should be fine for making se-eds.
i hear you. i have two diesels and one is expressing short fat indica pheno and and one stretchy airy sativa pheno. i cloned the sativa pheno i would like to keep that trait in my pool if i find a good masterkush male to mate with.
variety is power
i want a strong sativa diesel and a strong indica master kush male.
master kush is kush x skunk and then my sativa diesel..should be good.
variety is power
i want a strong sativa diesel and a strong indica master kush male.
master kush is kush x skunk and then my sativa diesel..should be good.