Right to work

fenderburn84

Well-Known Member
It didn't get to me lol. I'm just chiming in. My mom and dad were union to the bone life long dfl'ers and I can say unions are necessary they have completely lost their way.and merow has no idea what he is talking about, his only argument is something he found on a radical zionist conspiracy website. There are very loose rules here but it does not mean us members are easy to fool.
 

fenderburn84

Well-Known Member
We are not going to argue Israel here, there are other threads for that. You are more than welcome to come join the discussion over there.
 

WillyBagseed

Active Member
What many fail to realize.

Between deregulation, the telecom bill, NAFTA (and other treaties) , the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act and much more shit during the reigns of:

Reagan
Bush Sr.
Clinton
Bush Jr.
and continuing during Obama.

As you know many jobs were shipped off shore, all good due to above felons. We lose jobs, a different country gets cheap jobs making cheap goods shipped back here.. hurray !! we get cheap shit........

You fucking forgot the people who lost jobs...... not only are they either out of work or underemployed underpaid you forgot to take into consideration their spending power before job loss to after job loss.

Since many now spend less after said job loss less $$ is spent, causing small businesses to make smaller profits, causing said business to either pay less for workers or close shop and outsource their jobs....

Please rinse and repeat above for 30 years and tell me what happens..........................

Now that you know what happened and told yourself "ok, well that is how it is people need to work harder and stop asking for entitlements and shit they pay for out of their checks"..........

Fucktard, while this race to the bottom continues, corporations and upper management are all making RECORD profits, there is not a damn thing keeping fair wages to be paid to workers other than the fact they are plain getting robbed right before your eyes and you buy it. The telecom bill made 95% of all news to be controlled by 4-5 corporations who do not report what is really happening.

The profits companies used to reinvest into their own company for worker pay, healthcare and more are still there. They just go to the few now instead of average Joe.

Do me a favor, add up all the pay the fortune 500 CEO's ( I won't even ask you to do all the board members) pay, stock options , all of it. Then divide that by $40,000.00, 40k is a job that pays $15.00 hour and full health benefits.............. After you do the math please tell me how many 40k jobs the CEO's get paid........................ Then do the same math for the average Joe and CEO in 1975.........................


The minimum wage back in 1970 was $1.60 per hour. Today’s minimum wage is $7.25 – a 353% increase that looks great at first glance. The only problem is that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 37.8 in 1970 and 220.223 in 2011 – a 482% increase in the price of an average item.That effectively means that the buying strength of a dollar is significantly weaker by 129% – the difference between today’s CPI and the CPI of 1970.

Depending where you live minimum wage today should be $12.00 - $18.00 hour , go do the spiral to the bottom math and CEO math and than lie to me and tell me I am wrong... thing is you will still be lying.


How the fuck people can be so blind is beyond me...................
:wall:
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Nobody owes you a job and nobody owes you any money.

Why dont you focus on the real culprit? Since the 70's the FED has caused inflation to reduce your spending power by over 70%.

It is inflation like what we are going to face in the short term future that is making the poor poorer, not some mythical limit below which no one is allowed to work.
 

Mental91

Active Member
10 bucks an hr in Indiana will have you living easy. Then again our cost of living is very low. 100 grand will have you in a top of the line brand new home! Indiana is suffering from low employment rates and shit wages and we are not RTW. I think it should be your choice to be in a union or not. Fact is you reap what you sow so if you fuck yourself not being on a union thats your business/problem.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
10 bucks an hr in Indiana will have you living easy. Then again our cost of living is very low. 100 grand will have you in a top of the line brand new home! Indiana is suffering from low employment rates and shit wages and we are not RTW. I think it should be your choice to be in a union or not. Fact is you reap what you sow so if you fuck yourself not being on a union thats your business/problem.
that is why i would not defend RTW, it seems to me if you want to teach or be a plumber or whatever, you should be able to do so without joining a union if you so choose.

i can go on about my support for unions, but on this issue i feel that you should not be forced to join a union, it should be your choice. i still think most would favor unions anyways.
 

Mental91

Active Member
that is why i would not defend RTW, it seems to me if you want to teach or be a plumber or whatever, you should be able to do so without joining a union if you so choose.

i can go on about my support for unions, but on this issue i feel that you should not be forced to join a union, it should be your choice. i still think most would favor unions anyways.
That's what I don't understand. Why would someone not want the freedom of the organization they choose to join. What's the debate? It's your freedom vs no freedom in the provate sector.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Willyßagseed;6903660 said:
What many fail to realize.

Between deregulation, the telecom bill, NAFTA (and other treaties) , the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act and much more shit during the reigns of:

Reagan
Bush Sr.
Clinton
Bush Jr.
and continuing during Obama.

As you know many jobs were shipped off shore, all good due to above felons. We lose jobs, a different country gets cheap jobs making cheap goods shipped back here.. hurray !! we get cheap shit........

You fucking forgot the people who lost jobs...... not only are they either out of work or underemployed underpaid you forgot to take into consideration their spending power before job loss to after job loss.

Since many now spend less after said job loss less $$ is spent, causing small businesses to make smaller profits, causing said business to either pay less for workers or close shop and outsource their jobs....

Please rinse and repeat above for 30 years and tell me what happens..........................

Now that you know what happened and told yourself "ok, well that is how it is people need to work harder and stop asking for entitlements and shit they pay for out of their checks"..........

Fucktard, while this race to the bottom continues, corporations and upper management are all making RECORD profits, there is not a damn thing keeping fair wages to be paid to workers other than the fact they are plain getting robbed right before your eyes and you buy it. The telecom bill made 95% of all news to be controlled by 4-5 corporations who do not report what is really happening.

The profits companies used to reinvest into their own company for worker pay, healthcare and more are still there. They just go to the few now instead of average Joe.

Do me a favor, add up all the pay the fortune 500 CEO's ( I won't even ask you to do all the board members) pay, stock options , all of it. Then divide that by $40,000.00, 40k is a job that pays $15.00 hour and full health benefits.............. After you do the math please tell me how many 40k jobs the CEO's get paid........................ Then do the same math for the average Joe and CEO in 1975.........................


The minimum wage back in 1970 was $1.60 per hour. Today’s minimum wage is $7.25 – a 353% increase that looks great at first glance. The only problem is that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 37.8 in 1970 and 220.223 in 2011 – a 482% increase in the price of an average item.That effectively means that the buying strength of a dollar is significantly weaker by 129% – the difference between today’s CPI and the CPI of 1970.

Depending where you live minimum wage today should be $12.00 - $18.00 hour , go do the spiral to the bottom math and CEO math and than lie to me and tell me I am wrong... thing is you will still be lying.


How the fuck people can be so blind is beyond me...................
:wall:
If you're worried about wages being low you need also look at inflation and the power of the federal reserve. Wages aren't low just because of greedy employers, but more heavily in the inflation that is outpacing wage increases. Minimum wage is only necessary in an environment where inflation is a constant effect. Like taking Tylenol for chronic headaches, but we all know Acetaminophen is the active ingredient in Tylenol and it's very addicting and known to cause more headaches. Just a fuck train where the American citizens are getting fucked in the ass.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
...what do you suggest the dollar be backed by?
Not an unstable currency that fluctuates independently from our economic activity. That's incredibly naive and pointless. It also solves nothing. Gold dollars can be devalued just as easily as paper money, you just make each dollar represent less gold. At least paper money becomes more or less valuable because of how we use it, gold becomes more or less value based on things completely outside our control. That's why we got rid of it in the first place.

Advocating the idea that our economy can be fixed by switching to the gold standard is a clear sign that someone has no clue what they are talking about.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
So if a person enters a contract of their own volition, you believe that a 3rd party, that presumably knows what is best for others,
That third party is responsible for the revival of our middle class after the great depression. It's brought us a living wage, weekends off, sick pay, benefits, etc. They've proven they do know what's best for the American workers.

should micro manage them and negate that contract even if the original person doesn't want or need the 3rd party to intervene?
lol. The assumption that there are a lot of people out there who want to work for less money and no benefits is very bizarre.

"right to work" = not allowing people to make that choice because it allows employers to refuse to hire people who belong to unions. That's not giving people a choice, it's taking away a choice.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
You may misconstrue my position. IF a person wants to negotiate in tandem with others that's fine. My question is...what if they don't? Who has the authority to make another person's decisions for them or control their consent? If a person cannot make their own decisions are they still free?
Who are these people? Who wants to earn less money? Who wants to give up their only bargaining leverage in order to allow corporations to walk all over them?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
$10 an hour is the starting wage for someone with no skills, People with a PHD are not starting at $10 an hour. $10 an hour is not the wage that everyone in a RTW gets, most get much more.
When Unemployment runs out $10 an hour will keep you from living on the streets.


Minimum Wage is NOT intended to raise a family, it was intended for low skilled workers to be able to get a foot in the door.

My last job in a RTW state paid me $33 an hour plus full bennies.

What was a minimum wage intended for again? Wasn't it you that claimed that none of the european countries that are soooo economicaly superior had government mandated minimum wage? A minimum wage was not "intended" for low skilled workers, it was "intended" as a wage below which employers cannot pay, nothing in there about skills or families.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
That third party is responsible for the revival of our middle class after the great depression. It's brought us a living wage, weekends off, sick pay, benefits, etc. They've proven they do know what's best for the American workers.



lol. The assumption that there are a lot of people out there who want to work for less money and no benefits is very bizarre.

"right to work" = not allowing people to make that choice because it allows employers to refuse to hire people who belong to unions. That's not giving people a choice, it's taking away a choice.
I think it more bizarre to think that people want others to make their choices for them. You seem uncomfortable with answering the core question...Who should run your life, you or another person?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Nor do we own the upper class a percentage of our wages, yet they get them anyways.
You are correct nobody owes anybody any money absent a voluntary and consensual agreement. So why not simply stop giving them money?

You seem to get in some instances that people don't like to be made to do things against their will. I find it interesting that you don't carry that notion into the idea that some people should have the ability to opt in or opt of a Union arrangement.
 
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